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Computer Geeks Debate the Second Amendment [great thread over at Slashdot in re: Gauss pistols]
Slashdot ^ | Friday, July 18, 2003 @ 9:00 PM

Posted on 07/19/2003 2:30:57 PM PDT by SlickWillard

Some excerpts:

There are a myriad of firearm laws. Last I knew it was darned near 22,000 nationwide. It's a mess. Sure has done a heck of a lot to keep illegal guns off the street though. As a law abiding citizen I'm glad to know that I can't buy the same kind of firearms that my coke dealing cousin can illegally. Makes me feel real damn safe at night.

Ranting aside, laws generally apply to chemically propelled weapons. That leaves BB and pellet guns out of the regulations. The magnetic weapons are still slow enough and bulky enough that they're not under regulation yet. As soon as somebody gets one that works well and starts selling it though you can bet stink will hit the fan though.

While I'm not a fan of what he did Timothy McVeigh did build a weapon of sorts that was somewhat like a shotgun but fired a modified flare that would explode. It was meant to take down helicopters. The ATF went after him for a bit on this one, or at least confronted him I guess, even though it was prefectly legal to sell. Couldn't sell the explosive flares but empties with instructions on how to make shells were illegal.

"Shall not infringe" sure has come to mean "shall not entirely infringe" over the years.

Yes I'm a pro-2nd ammendment person. If you have a problem with that I suggest you post a sign on your front lawn saying that you refuse to own guns if you think that will make the world a safer place.


Thank you for officially beginning the obligatory Second Amendment flame-war. I will counter by making the obligatory mention of Columbine. "Columbine". Your turn.


The guns used by those kids were:

1. Illegally purchased (They were purchased by someone who could purchase them legally, but with the intent to illegally provide them to minors, which makes the act of purchasing them illegal.)

2. Illegally owned (In the state of Colorado handguns may only be owned by persons 21 and older.)

3. Illegally possessed (In the state of Colorado it is illegal for a person under 21 to possess a handgun without supervision.)

4. Illegally carried (Carry of a concealed handgun is only allowed by permit.)

5. Illegally possessed (It is illegal for non-LEOs to possess a firearm on public school property without a concealed carry permit. Yes, this makes it "doubly" illegal for them to have had them.)

6. Illegally carried (It is illegal to carry a concealed firearm on school property without a permit . . . ditto above.)

So, discounting all the petty things (like illegally possessing handgun ammo, etc) the young lady and boys involved broke no fewer than SIX "gun control" laws before a single shot was fired.

Any insinuation that this situation would have somehow been improved by more "gun control" laws (aka further erosion of the second civil liberty enumerated in the Bill of Rights) amounts to strong evidence of a hopelessly irrational mind.


I wish all you gun-toting fucktards would just go create your own nation,

We did. Who the hell let you in here?


(Excerpt) Read more at science.slashdot.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS:
 
For those of you who don't know, Slashdot is one of the few bulletin boards on the World Wide Web that is larger even than FreeRepublic.
 
1 posted on 07/19/2003 2:30:57 PM PDT by SlickWillard
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To: KayEyeDoubleDee
Bump.
2 posted on 07/19/2003 2:31:39 PM PDT by SlickWillard
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To: SlickWillard
I wish all you gun-toting f***tards would just go create your own nation,

We did. Who the hell let you in here?

That's priceless.

(Please edit out the f-words, so Admin doesn't have to?)

3 posted on 07/19/2003 2:35:14 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (© 2003, Ravin' Lunatic since 4/98)
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To: Cyber Liberty
More excerpts [it's a great thread]:
Using a series of magnets to accelerate a metal slug - it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to do. Right?

Also, aren't "Guass Guns" are more widely known via the games (both board- and PC-) BattleTech and Mechwarrior?


Gauss Rifles are from battletech.

Interestingly, I don't think the mass of the slug makes all that much difference to the eventual damage - force = mass * acceleration

So using lighter weights would be advantageous, up until the point where the projectile becomes too light to keep a decent trajectory in a cross wind.

And of course, there is the Particle Projection Cannon, with a charged particle instead of a magnetic slug...


Interestingly, I don't think the mass of the slug makes all that much difference to the eventual damage - force = mass * acceleration

This does not quite translate into how a round will effect a target. Particularly a soft one. A light projectile travelling extremely fast will penetrate a human (for example, lets take the NATO 5.56x45mm round) and do significant damage, but won't always be lethal, because the high velocity causes it to penetrate and keep going, rather than transfer all its energy to the target. Compare to a 7.62mm round, which is traveling slower, heavier than a 5.56, but it does LOTs more damage


The real-world lethality of a round of ammo is highly complex and often counterintuitive; not all of the mechanisms that increase or decrease lethality are well-understood. While the kinetic energy (KE = 1/2 M V^2) and momentum (P = MV) have an undeniable relationship to lethality, they are demonstrably not the only factors, as there are real-world comparisons which show rounds with lower KE and momentum which are more lethal than ones with more KE and momentum.

Personally I shoot 9MM; my preferred ammo is 147gr@980fps, compared a more conventional loading of 125gr@1160fps. Real-world statistics show that the 147gr loadout has a slightly better track record of one-shot kills than the 125gr, even though the 147gr has roughly the same momentum and 20% less KE.

The M-16, firing the 5.56 nato round, has roughly 70% as much kinetic energy and momentum as the 7.62 Russian round used by the AK-47. Yet, pradoxically, battlefield statistics from show that the survival rate of people shot with 7.62Rus is significantly higher than that of people shot with 5.56NATO.


IIRC, the light 5.56mm slug is unstable, and tumbles when it hits an object. It spins in the body like a circular saw.

The new, heavier round used with the M16A2 is more stable, hits and penetrates better, but is less lethal.


4 posted on 07/19/2003 2:47:58 PM PDT by SlickWillard
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To: SlickWillard
bump
5 posted on 07/19/2003 3:14:38 PM PDT by RippleFire
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To: RippleFire
Slashdot has been getting more conservative over the years.
I remember that during the election, if you even suggested that Al-Bore was not the comming messiah you would have had your head chopped off.
6 posted on 07/19/2003 4:35:41 PM PDT by max_rpf
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To: SlickWillard
<Gamer-Geek>Gauss Rifles are actually from Traveller and possibly from an earlier work of science fiction (Traveller drew inspiration from many sources). FASA, the company that created BattleTech and Mechwarrior (originally "BattleDroids" until George Lucas' lawyers asked them nicely to change the name), started out as a company that produced Traveller supplements. So I'm confident in saying that Traveller came before BattleTech but I'm not sure if there was an earlier science fiction source. Yes, BattleTech was originally a tabletop war game played with hex maps and miniatures or cardboard figures.</Gamer-Geek>
7 posted on 07/19/2003 7:28:35 PM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: max_rpf
Maybe they're finally starting to look at the party affliation of those politicians pushing the DMCA bill, the FBI wiretap bill, etc. etc.
8 posted on 07/19/2003 7:29:28 PM PDT by brianl703
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To: Cyber Liberty
I wish all you gun-toting f***tards would just go create your own nation, We did. Who the hell let you in here?

You're right, it's priceless and worth repeating

9 posted on 07/19/2003 8:20:35 PM PDT by Katya
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To: max_rpf
"Slashdot has been getting more conservative over the years.

Well, I'd argue over all they're tilting towards the Libertarian perspective...which of course supports unrestricted gun ownership.

10 posted on 07/19/2003 8:22:24 PM PDT by Katya
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To: Question_Assumptions
Wow, I thought I was the only person alive who still remembered Traveller.

Even my hardcore (former) gamer friends around my age have never heard of it....

I remember spending all night on many Friday/Saturday mornings playing it with a small group of friends when I was a senior in high school. We used to use vodka for hit points...LOL - Pass out and you were dead...

Good times.

Col Sanders

11 posted on 07/20/2003 8:57:44 AM PDT by Col Sanders (I ought to tear your no-good Goddang preambulatory bone frame, and nail it to your government walls)
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To: Col Sanders
Wow, I thought I was the only person alive who still remembered Traveller.

Traveller still has a sizable fan community. The 4th edition was largely a failure but it has been adapted for GURPS quite successfully and an adaptation to the D&D-like d20 system (called "T20") has recently been released. See this site or do a search for "Traveller RPG" in a search engine if you want to know more. If you want to see some really neat graphics, take a look at this web site and look at the Traveller Gallery.

12 posted on 07/21/2003 8:01:40 AM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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