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It pays to avoid a ticket -- or fight one
MSN Money ^
| July 15, 2003
| Chris Solomon
Posted on 07/15/2003 11:22:14 AM PDT by mvpel
The best advice is simply not to speed, at least not brazenly. But if you get nailed, fight it -- because a $50 ticket can cost you thousands once your insurer gets wind of it.
By Chris Solomon
Now is a very bad time to have a lead foot.
States facing yawning budget gaps are finding new money by pinching speeders more frequently -- and pinching them harder, too. Texas lawmakers recently added $30 to fines for speeding tickets. California has added a surcharge of between $7 and $20, depending on the severity of the violation. And the Illinois Legislature is set to tag an additional $4 to the cost of a minor speeding ticket.
True, four more bucks wont change your life, but the fine is usually the least of your worries. Even one speeding ticket can begin to turn your name to mud in your insurers eyes. More than one can cost you thousands of dollars in higher premiums.
Insurance companies say punishing speeders is well warranted: In one study, California drivers with one speeding citation in a three-year period had a crash rate 50% higher, on average, than those with no infractions -- and the crash rate more than doubled for those who had two or more tickets, according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and the Highway Loss Data Institute, industry-sponsored research groups.
A ticket from Johnny Law does seem to slow people down, at least for a bit. A study of Ontario traffic statistics, published in the British medical journal the Lancet, found that a conviction for a moving violation cut the risk of a fatal crash in the following month by 35%. The benefit evaporated by four months after the conviction. Assigning penalty points to a drivers license -- especially for speeding tickets -- reduced the risk of fatal crashes more than convictions without penalty points.
Keeping your nose clean
Still, as long as running late is an American pastime, people will speed. And there are ways to protect yourself and your premiums. First, reduce your likelihood of getting snagged by the speed gun in these ways:
- Know thyself. Spend $5 to request your driving record from your states Department of Motor Vehicles. Is it accurate? Could you face a suspension hearing if you get convicted for one more violation? Then call your insurer. Find out what a slip-up would mean to your rates.
- Penny-wise = pound foolish. Police will frequently key on an auto that has problems such as broken headlights, taped-over taillights or a missing front license plate. Spend $3 to replace a burned-out license plate bulb and you may save hundreds of dollars later, says Matisyahu Wolfberg, a policeman-turned-traffic defense attorney in New York.
- Stay incognito, Part I. Driving an arrest-me red sports car doesnt guarantee youll get pulled over, but it doesnt help avoid police, say defense attorneys. Ditto -- albeit to a lesser degree -- any expensive car. Consider a Camry over a Corvette and you may save money in more than the showroom.
- Stay incognito, Part II. Ignore the general pace of traffic at your own peril. Youre a pack animal; dont stick out of the pack, says Casey Raskob, a Croton-on-Hudson, N.Y., attorney who focuses on traffic-related cases. Passing police cars is verboten. Stay in the right lane when possible.
- Keep your eyes peeled. Scan your rear-view mirror often while driving. Look for possible spots far ahead where a patrol car could hide. Also, watch how professional truckers drive, and slow down when they do; theyve got far more experience detecting Smokey.
- Dont be sticker shocked. Pasting a Police Benevolent Association sticker to the rear window isnt a license to speed. That jig is long up, says Raskob. Wisecracking bumper stickers -- Bad Cop; No Donut -- wont endear you to The Man, either.
The traffic stop and its aftermath
You get pulled over anyway. Now what do you do?
- Be polite. Most of the time, the motorist has very little chance. The officer has already has made up his mind, says Wolfberg, the former cop. The only real chance the driver has is to be nice. Act peeved and a trooper may give you the full fine. Some will also flag the citation with a notation, like ND -- a note to a prosecutor or to himself (in some states, law-enforcement officers act as prosecutors in traffic court) to give a loudmouth no deal in court.
- Dont admit guilt. The absolutely fatal question is, Do you know why I stopped you? says attorney Mark Sutherland, co-author of the book Traffic Ticket Defense. Authorities can use any admission of guilt against you when you contest the ticket (see below). For other things to consider during a traffic stop, see hints on the Web site of the National Motorists Association, a drivers rights group (see the link at left under Related Sites).
- Once home, dont immediately pay the ticket. Simply paying the fine, an admission of guilt, could cost you dearly in insurance rates. Doubt it? Lets say youre an experienced driver in California with a single-car policy and a good driving record, who is paying the average rates statewide for liability, collision and comprehensive coverage, $765 annually. If you were a Prudential Financial customer youd get a 25% good-driver discount and pay only $574. One speeding ticket would mean a roughly 27% increase from the base premium, says Prudentials Laurita Warner -- a $207 annual increase, or $621 more over three years. (Surcharges usually last for three years.)
Get a second minor conviction and your premium would rise an additional 40%, and youd also lose your good-driver discount, says Warner. Suddenly, a premium that was $574 has ballooned to $1,071. After the third conviction, expect to pay roughly 63% more than you originally did, or $1,247. Over three years you would end up paying $2,020 more than if youd kept your nose clean, or much more than the fines themselves. Clearly, getting pinched leaves a painful scar.
The pain can be even worse if youre a teenager or young adult. Getting even one speeding ticket, much less two, can cause a dramatic spike in your insurance rates -- sometimes doubling and even tripling those rates -- and jeopardize your ability to get preferred insurance rates, says Karl Newman, president of the Washington Insurance Council, a consumer education group funded by member insurance companies in Washington State. That could require you to purchase high-risk insurance.
Luckily, youve got several initial options once busted:
- Ignoring the ticket isnt one of them. It used to be if you obtained a ticket in New York, it didnt get back to New Jersey, but thats no longer true, says Raskob. Avoid a ticket and a warrant may be issued for your arrest -- a warrant that appears even on the computer system of your hometown cops.
- Special state programs. Talk to your states DMV or local traffic court to find out about ways to erase your ticket. In Rhode Island, for example, if you havent had any vehicle-related violations in three years and then receive a minor one (for example, for exceeding the speed limit by less than 20 miles an hour), you can ask that the ticket be dismissed. It usually is. In some southern states, authorities will agree to defer judgment, if you dont get any more tickets for the next six months.
- Traffic school. Often your best alternative is to take a six- to eight-hour safety course for drivers. Policies vary by state, but often a minor speeding conviction can be wiped from your record and therefore go unseen by your employer or insurance company. Youll still have to pay the fine, plus an additional $50 to $80 in tuition and other costs, and invest a Saturday. Some states such as California let drivers take the course online. Traffic school has its limits, however. In some states, its an option only once every 18 or 24 months. In others, those caught exceeding the speed limit by more than 15 to 20 mph may not be eligible, says David Brown, author of the book Beat Your Ticket.
Should you go to court?
If the above options arent available, go to court. Court doesnt have to be a Perry Mason experience. Simply asking for your day in traffic court can save you money. Count the ways:
- Showing up is half the battle. Only about 3% of all tickets are contested, estimates Brown, which means even a few people showing up to challenge a ticket can jam the system. A lot of times the courts will change the ticket for you, to encourage you not to go to court -- sometimes reducing a moving violation to a lesser charge that your insurance company wont penalize you for, says Eric Skrum, spokesman for the National Motorists Association.
- Cop no-shows. If you show up on your assigned date, defense attorneys say that in 20% to 25% of cases the ticket-writing officer won't. If the officer is required to show up (jurisdictions have different rules), no appearance usually means the ticket is thrown out. No-shows by police happen even more in summer, when even they take vacations.
- Errors matter (sometimes). While courts will often excuse minor errors on a ticket -- a misspelled name, a quibble over whether your Jag is ochre or orange -- if the officer cites the wrong statute on the ticket, or grossly misidentifies the highway or your make of car, you may to get your ticket dismissed, says Skrum. Its often best to keep mum about the gaffe until you go to court, however, and reveal the mistake after the officer has recounted the wrong information.
- An 'A' for effort. If you do get all the way to a magistrate or traffic commissioner, any reasonable objection you have to the ticket is likely to at least reduce the amount of the fine, and perhaps change it to an infraction that wont hurt your rates. Youve got to fight every ticket, because the only thing anyone will ever know is what you reduced it to. The accusation will be lost in the courthouse, says Raskob.
The above, soft approach often works, but some people prefer to aggressively contest the ticket, which they usually do with at least some success. When [Freeper] Michael Pelletier, a 32-year-old computer systems engineer in the Bay Area, got a ticket a few years ago, he rented the nine-pound (!) legal defense kit from the National Motorists Association. (The rental cost of the packet, which is tailored to the requesters state, is $50 per month, with a discount for NMA members.)
The only thing I did was crank the legal crank, says Pelletier. That meant asking for continuances and requesting records -- proof of when the officers radar gun was last calibrated and when the officer was trained in its use -- in hopes of finding a flaw in the authorities case, or simply wearing them down until they offered a deal.
A pre-emptive strike
Battling in court can be time-consuming and complicated. Pelletier estimates he invested nearly 50 hours in the year 2000 to fight his ticket, which he received driving his motorcycle 47 miles an hour in a 25 mph zone. He got it dismissed seven months later based on an esoteric legal definition of a local street or road.
In Pelletiers eyes, the struggles are worthwhile despite the time commitment. He has also helped his wife and brother keep three citations from their records, and his insurance company recently upgraded him to a superior driver, which means he will pay $70 less in the next six months than he had been paying. And by keeping his driving record clean hes ensured that his next ticket -- if it sticks -- wont hurt him so much as it might have.
If you dont have the time to do all of this research, consider hiring an attorney who frequently deals with speeding tickets. Such an attorney will know how to get the best deal for you and can often appear in court for you, so you dont have to take a day off to do so. Fees can vary from $75 to $750, in part depending on whether theyre already frequently in the courthouse dealing with such matters.
The free piece of advice they give, however, is the same: Confront your speeding ticket, even if its your first, and do your darnedest to make it disappear. After all, they add, you never know when youll get your next one, with higher premiums close behind.
TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: insurance; police; speeding; tickets
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To: ArrogantBustard
You pegged him!!!
101
posted on
07/15/2003 3:00:32 PM PDT
by
dpa5923
(More than a man, less than a god.)
To: Drango
depends on the state for most states you would be wrong.
The judge would find you guilty of speeding and reduce the penalty to either the minimum speed or to the determined speed.
This is why it is important for to examine the officers radar log at trial. (or laser log)
There are procedures to calibrating the speed detection unit. If the speed was determined by air, the pilot and the citing officer must be in court.
It is also useful to make sure they cited the speeding occuring on the correct type of road. (state, county, municipal, federal) Statutes vary and citing the wrong statute can void the citation.
you 25/35/30 argument is a tad dated. Its right there with the old spedometer argument.
To: proxy_user
note in most states, as long as there is no final adjudication (withhold adjudication) it by law can not be used to raise your insurance.
only exception, accident where money was paid out by an insurance company. goto findlaw.com for your states laws.
To: Fester Chugabrew
private communites can give authority to the police to write citations. Evidence of private or public must be brought to court.
To: Trust but Verify; Catspaw; steveegg
If you're going to get stopped for speeding, do it in Oconomowoc. My nephew got pulled over there a couple of years back. He was unfailingly polite, and they lowered it to "disorderly conduct," not speeding. A money-generator for sure, but nothing on his points.
Apparently that's how they do it in Oconomowoc in order to avoid the Rosendale speed-trap reputation.
105
posted on
07/15/2003 3:21:53 PM PDT
by
lorrainer
(Bonus points to out-of -staters that know how to pronounce "Oconomowoc.")
To: mvpel
I hope you're not one of those obnoxious people who drive exactly 65mph in the leftmost lane and create a dangerous traffic situation for everyone else.I happen to know someone like that. It's incredibly annoying. (and he was doing it in Los Angeles!)
106
posted on
07/15/2003 3:27:18 PM PDT
by
xm177e2
(Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
To: newwahoo
Well I won't volunteer that I've been "going a bit too fast" but if the officer tells me I was over the speed limit, I'll admit to it. The ticket I did fight (and won), I think I had a pretty good case. The officer clocked me doing 45mph in a 25mph school zone but it was during spring vacation and schools were closed. The normal speed limit in that area is 40. So technically I was speeding but definitely not by 20mph as the ticket stated!
I know police officers have a tough job and the last thing they want to be doing is sitting around in speed traps handing out tickets. But they certainly have a right to be discriminating. If they stop a decent working man or a mother who happens to be over the speed limit, a warning can be effective. I certainly slow down for months after getting stopped. But if they stop a teen who was burning rubber in his father's car and being reckless or a miserable SOB with an attitude, I don't blame them for slapping them with the ticket.
BTW, my cousin is married to a police officer and he is the same way as you. He'll tend to give a break to somebody with a Bush/Cheney sticker, but if he sees a Greenpeace sticker or something like that, he gets his ticket-writing pen out. Human nature is human nature. I just hope I never get stopped by a liberal cop!
About three years ago, my car was in the shop and a co-worker offered to let me borrow her car to do some errands. I took the keys and went out to the parking lot. As soon as I saw her Gore/Lieberman sticker on the back, I turned right around and went back inside. Ain't no way I'm driving a set of wheels with that sticker on it. Not even down the street or around the block.
107
posted on
07/15/2003 3:27:54 PM PDT
by
SamAdams76
(Back in boot camp! 245 (-55))
To: timestax; Drango
1 piece of advise....The police officer does NOT, REPEAT NOT, have to show up. That is true in some states, but not all. In those states where the pol;ice officer is not required to show up, the ticketed person can subpoena the officer and make him show up. If he then doesn't show up, the court will be required to dismiss the ticket.
I was cited for an improper lane change three years agon and the sheriff's deputy failed to include perjury language on his report and when I brought it to the atention of the judge, he dismissed the case. I know he intentionally did not sign it under penalty of perjury or show up because his boss did not want me to be able to question him under oath for a wide variety of reasons.
To: lorrainer
This could be a Waukesha County thing you're noting. The son of a friend of ours got a ticket for 16 over and sent an attorney to the court date. The final charge: Impeding traffic. I kid you not.
To: longtermmemmory
"private communites can give authority to the police to write citations. Evidence of private or public must be brought to court.How do private communities give this authority? Is it implicit or stated? The section of State Code under which my daughter is charged is fairly clear. As it reads she does not qualify even to be a defendant. We will arm ourselves with evidence, however, thanks to your observation.
Meanwhile, even the stop signs in our community do not fall within D.O.T. specifications. If they did not cite the other driver because "it is not a public highway," then it is grossly unfair to cite my daughter for operating a vehicle on a public highway without a license.
Those will be the arguments, and of they do not work, then my daughter will be advised to change her plea to "no contest."
To: connectthedots
I'm in Ohio . and my last ticket was in 1992 , and I showed up, and there was no policeman for my case, or any of the many other traffic cased. Since I did show up to fight it, the Judge said that it was too late to argue the ticket...I should have pled my case to the policeman before he started writing. The Judge did cut me a break by saying it would NOT be required to report it , as points, to Columbus, License Bureau. I don't know how it is now, as I have not gotten any tickets since then..but then I saw NO policeman in traffic court. Prolly in injury/Dui cases, it was a different story.
To: Badray
LOL!
To: timestax
p i n g
To: mvpel
Well, the article did say I was clocked at 47mph in a 25mph zone, didn't it? :-D
But in my defense, I was running late, the street was long and straight, and there was no other traffic, and I don't do that anymore. :-D
114
posted on
07/15/2003 4:37:24 PM PDT
by
mvpel
(Michael Pelletier)
To: mvpel
Speeding ticket = guilty until proven innocent.
People accused of being ax murders have more rights than those caught in speed traps. I know, I've experienced the wrath of small-minded town cops (Elm Mott, TX and Argyle, TX)... I was ticked in Spring of '85 and '89... both times I was heading home for summer break from college. I guess I was really looking forward to a home-cooked meal.
Trajan88
To: mvpel
Here in Tulsa the members of the FOP (only cops are members of the FOP) get round medal badges about the size of tennis balls that they bolt to their rear license plates on their personal cars.
Sometimes they do it in such a manner that it blocks one or two of the letters or numbers on the plate which is illegel.
But they don't care because it is obvious why they have the badges on their plates.
It is 'get out of jail free' card. It tells on duty cops that the driver is a fellow officer or family member.
It a minor form of abuse of their position but it stills bugs the hell out me.
116
posted on
07/15/2003 4:57:25 PM PDT
by
429CJ
(.)
To: MineralMan
Yeah, and you probably drive in the left lane at less than the speed limit blocking traffic.
To: lorrainer
Apparently that's how they do it in Oconomowoc in order to avoid the Rosendale speed-trap reputation.Things are different in Kunie :-))
I did make a mistake--I wasn't using 23, but 26. But according to the speed trap link, they've got ALL entrances & exits to Rosendale covered. And using 26 is the shortest way to get from Hwy. 41 to 151.
118
posted on
07/15/2003 5:19:50 PM PDT
by
Catspaw
To: Constitutionalist Conservative
Ky did have that very thing on a section of Northbound I75 nearing Cincinnati. There was a very dangerous section of road called Death Hill and there were a lot of accidents in that area and south of there as well.
I do not know if they are still there now as I have not had a detector in about 15 years.
119
posted on
07/15/2003 5:21:19 PM PDT
by
pcpa
To: MineralMan
Yeah, and you probably drive in the left lane at less than the speed limit blocking traffic.
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