Hong Kong’s Democracy At A Cross Road

Self | July 15, 2003 | FreepForever

[FreepForever]

The July 13, Sunday rally for democracy development held in Chater Road, Central, Hong Kong, punctuates, if not decelerates, the People’s Power movement that unsettles the bureaucracy of the Hong Kong government to its core.

While it is time for both the pro-democracy camp activists and the citizen to take a breather and consolidate strength for future movement, they are split and divided. With the center of the storm, the controversial Article 23 which triggers unprecedented uproar, now shelved, the general public’s focus moves to: To keep or oust Tung?

The difference of opinion stems from whether the movement should continue with it’s prime target of removing Tung CheeHwa, the flagellated and most disliked Chief Executive of Hong Kong. After the historic July 1 half-million protest march, Mr. Tung’s approval rate dropped to a new low: 34% (source: HKU public opinion poll). Only two of his 3 secretaries and 11 ministers barely registered above 50%. This is the worst confidence crisis that the administration has ever faced since 1997.

The “Save Tung (for better use)” faction argues that removing Tung at this stage would be detrimental to the democratic reform process. If Tung resigns today, his post will be temporarily succeeded by the Chief Secretary, Donald Tsang as Acting Chief Executive for a maximum period of six months. And the 800-members election Committee will be reassembled for a reelection because the mechanism for popular election of chief executive is not yet in place. Whoever the new Chief Executive is, his first 5-year term will finish in 2009. That means the first popularly elected Chief Executive would only be materialized in Hong Kong in 2009 the earliest, even with Beijing’s green light all the way. Therefore, removing Tung now is actually a delay to the goal of popularly elected chief executive. If Hong Kong keeps Tung in office, there may still be some hope that Hong Kong can get a popularly elected chief executive as early as 2007 when Tung finishes his second term.

The more bellicose “Oust Tung” faction argues that whoever think Hong Kong will get it’s first popular chief executive election in 2007 are either very naive or day dreaming. Asking Tung’s present administration to build a democratic election system is like an old Chinese saying: “asking a tiger for its fur”, all his ministers will fight tooth and nail to resist it. There is no reason to let Tung stay in office for an extra day. This is considered a cost too high for a democratic dream that will never come true. If Hong Kong wants a new beginning, it would be after Tung’s resignation, not before.

Up to now, both factions’ argument have valid points and both factions have its diehard supporters. It will take some time for the two factions to debate and reach a consensus. However, no matter what consensus is reached, the biggest deciding factor still lies in Beijing. Will the Central Government loosen its grip and allow Hong Kong to have such progressive democratic reform? Beijing’s authority fears that if Hong Kong citizen’s demand for more democracy is unopposed, mainland’s billion strong population will follow suit. For a non-democratic state like Communist China, any pursuit for more democracy traditionally means “counter-revolution” (see note) and must be dealt with by brutal force.

Note: Ironically, the administration of Communist China think that they have monopolized the word “revolution”. Therefore, any force in opposition to the present regime, is officially labeled as “counter-revolution”.

[FreepForever]

The Communists are not about to take wholescale responsibility for 68 million deaths (BTW, what's the ref or even a general/nonspecific level source for that figure?).

Sorry I forgot this in your #54, it should be 65 million. Reference: The Black Book of Communism (Harvard University Press), excerpt:

http://home.att.net/~genocides/bbc.htm

U.S.S.R.: 20 million deaths; China: 65 million deaths; Vietnam: 1 million deaths; North Korea: 2 million deaths; Cambodia: 2 million deaths; Eastern Europe: 1 million deaths; Latin America: 150,000 deaths; Africa: 1.7 million deaths; Afghanistan: 1.5 million deaths; International Communist parties not in power: about 10,000 deaths; The total approaches 100 million people killed.

Communist China is responsible for 2/3 of the total killings. Mao made Stalin and Hitler look like boy scouts.

[FreepForever]

Re your #60. One of my hobby is to collect literatures about China's Cultural Revolution. I helped edited and translated some into traditional Chinese for Hong Kong readers too. I want to find out the root of the evil force behind such collective craze, the complete loss of humanity, and the dark side in the people's mind. Sadly, until today, that evil force still remains in the minds of so many Chinese among us and it is still directing the course of Chinese history. How sad.

Bless you.

[Quix]

THANKS BIG.

I much appreciate the stats and refs.

Given that even believers will have to give an account for every idle word . . .

It's difficult to imagine the trauma these denizens of death will have to face--and are facing given the death of so many of them. But those still living are too arrogant and blind to think they will ever have to reap what they have sown.

But they will. We all will. The Blood of Jesus spares believers of much of the crud they have sown. But we still have many educational experiences from the reaping God still sees fit to allow our way.

Thanks for your msgs and efforts for Freedom and right.

[Quix]

You wrote:
I want to find out the root of the evil force behind such collective craze, the complete loss of humanity, and the dark side in the people's mind. Sadly, until today, that evil force still remains in the minds of so many Chinese among us and it is still directing the course of Chinese history. How sad.

Q:
Collective craze; complete loss of humanity . . .

Understand. There are mysteries in all this to some degree alright.

However, mob mentality probably has a strong demonic component toward destructiveness. The lynching mobs in the American South would qualify.

We know that satan seeks to steal, kill and destroy. It's his only business.

Mobs make it easy because the emotional motivating energy tends to be higher. And, we know from extensive research that when more than 3-4 people are involved--and often enough even with only 3-4 people--RESPONSIBILITY FOR ONE'S ACTIONS is minimized to removed.

Anonymity in a mob is increased and responsibility is decreased to removed. Therefore, it's a bit like the husband away on a business trip with the X rated videos in his hotel room--the delusion that no one will know; no one will hold you to account and the consequences/reaping/harvesting will never find you--that delusion intensifies fiercely in a mob and takes effective control of the individuals willing to be swept along with the mob.

Additionally, as in China, there was a very understandable terrifying conviction, knowledge that IF they did not participate, they would be next on the bottom of the torture, death heap.

And, you may know, in some villages in Southern China during the Cultural Revolution--if you did not eat your enemies, you might be the one eaten next.

That's a tremendous amount of pressure. Human fears, selfishness, destructiveness from the fallen human heart since Adam. Add in demonic influence on that heart. Add many masses of such people and tyranny is certainly off and running.

I think only Holy Spirit within one and a heart sold out to Jesus would have the strength to resist such pressures.

Because only believers have the BLESSED HOPE and inner conviction, knowledge that this is only boot-camp. WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. THIS IS NOT THE END. TO LIVE IS CHRIST, TO DIE IS GAIN. HE THAT SAVES HIS LIFE SHALL LOSE IT; HE THAT LOSES IT FOR THE KINGDOM SHALL SAVE IT.

Only such deep convictions afford the courage and strength by His Spirit to resist such horrors.

I predict that the United States MAY demonstrate worse horrors in some neighborhoods as rebellious, demonized youth realize they've been sold a bill of goods by satan--as society collpases around their ears--and just strike out willynilly in vengeance at whatever and whomever is nearby.

Then there will be the gangs who've been worshipping satan all along deliberately choosing and very driven to just go on destruction tirades for the 'thrill' of it and to dissipate their own great terror and anger at not being able to get what they want when they want for whatever pleasure any more.

Perhaps not far behind will be those who've been addicted to various hard rock, heavy metal music and rap lyrics and who have sort of barely consciously become programmed to be all cocked, fired-up and ready to go on destructive rages, binges through neighborhoods.

Americans seem to mostly have not a clue about what's coming in the not too distant future.

Certainly Psalm 91 is a comfort for believers. I can't imagine what comfort nonbelievers will find. None, I think.

Imagine their state.

The Cultural Revolution was similar. Chaos, confusion, instability, violence, abuse, torture, destruction, accusation, death etc. were the NORM. As Eric Fromm noted, in an insane society, only the insane are sane.

The Bible has warned that in our era it will be parent against child; child against parent; brother against brother etc.

I think The Cultural Revolution was a kind of practice session for satan and his demonic forces. Next, the show will go on the road--GLOBALLY.

[GOP_1900AD]

True. Most Taiwanese and Western companies are less interested now in HK / Shenzhen and are increasingly obsessed, mostly due to the early work by Hon Hai, in Shanghai / Kun Shan.

[GOP_1900AD]

Sounds like you might have seen that aweful Asiawind forum, hosted, I might add, in COLUMBUS, OH, USA! I suspect the forum owner to be a PRC student or H1B guy though, certainly not a true immigrant / naturalized American! At least not mentally!

[FreepForever]

I am referring to those authentic Chinese forums posted in simplified Chinese characters. There are four that I frequently visit (no English name though). Some are hosted in Canada, I guess. If they are hosted inside mainland China, they would have deleted those anti-communist messages long ago.

They are the main battle ground between the mainland Chinese (the ultra-leftists) and the freer Chinese (HK, Taiwan). Of course, we are outnumbered by 99:1.

I will take a look at the Asiawind forum. Thanks for the info.