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Lesbian pastor ruffles Southern Baptist tradition in Tenn.
Associated Press ^ | July 5, 2003 | Jim Patterson

Posted on 07/13/2003 1:43:26 PM PDT by nwrep

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To: terycarl
I was impressed that the Baptist took care of this problem very quickly. They did not have to have 20 meetings to solve this problem. The Catholics could actually learn something here.
61 posted on 07/14/2003 7:05:15 AM PDT by ACAC
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To: nwrep; CARepubGal; drstevej
"I say that the Southern Baptist Convention left me, because the SBC as it is today is not the same spiritual and theological home in which I grew up," Baker said. "I think that there's a distinct call to the church to push the edges of inclusiveness."

Huh?

Can anyone name any SBC church in the 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, or 80's that had a lesbian pastor?

Sorry chick, but the SBC didn't leave you, you have chosen to flaunt your sin, and true Christians call upon you to repent.

62 posted on 07/14/2003 9:24:00 AM PDT by Jerry_M (I can only say that I am a poor sinner, trusting in Christ alone for salvation. -- Gen. Robt E. Lee)
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To: who knows what evil?
We're admonished to not give up "assembling ourselves together". Why should it matter to anyone whether it is at a home or in a "church building"?
63 posted on 07/14/2003 10:50:47 AM PDT by tal hajus (I)
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To: DannyTN
Excellent answer.
64 posted on 07/14/2003 4:26:40 PM PDT by I still care
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To: nwrep
I can't believe that this is going on at a Southern Baptist church! I'm sure Sandra Day O'Conner is pleased though.
65 posted on 07/14/2003 4:31:06 PM PDT by Walkin Man
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Comment #66 Removed by Moderator

To: longtermmemmory
(h)I was born a smoker, but it has not been easy but I have quit smoking.(/h)

Glad to hear you quit. (I quit about 3 days after accepting Christ), but when you were born, who lit your smokes. :)

67 posted on 07/14/2003 4:48:42 PM PDT by Fzob (Why does this tag line keep showing up?)
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To: DannyTN
The Anabaptists didn't appear until 1525.

If you want to refute her statement, you'd do better to point to the Great Schism.

68 posted on 07/14/2003 4:56:26 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: B Knotts
"The Anabaptists didn't appear until 1525. "

There were always other groups like the anabaptists that rejected the Roman Pope and Catholic hierarchy. Below is an excerpt of non-catholic church history from the following link. Church History

During all this time of the rise and development of false doctrines and practice in the churches, there were scattered through Europe, Asia, and Africa, groups of dissenting churches which refused to acknowledge the Roman pope and sought to follow the New Testament. Some early groups were the Montanists, Novatians, and Donatists. Later groups included the Petrobrusians, Waldensees, and Anabaptists. Catholic historians call most of these sects "Anabaptists". They were mercilessly persecuted throughout the centuries until after the Reformation, and some persecution against them has continued to modern times.

Though these groups did not carry the name "Baptists", many of them did hold various Baptist tenents, such as separation of church and state, spiritual democracy, salvation by grace apart from sacraments, believers' baptism, and immersion as the mode of baptism. churches holding these truths cherished New Testament principles. They shared with Baptists the desire to follow Christ's will for His churches.

When the Reformation came, numerous new non-Catholic groups appeared. Some of them became the large Protestant denominations of today. They all rejected many of the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church, but most of them retained some teachings which had no foundation in the New Testament. In the centuries since the Reformation, other denominations have been formed until there are now hundreds of separate denominational organizations. Some of them have departed far from using the New Testament as their only rule of faith and practice.

69 posted on 07/14/2003 7:29:50 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: Walkin Man
"I can't believe that this is going on at a Southern Baptist church! "

It didn't go on for long. The Southern Baptists kicked them out as quick as they heard about it and confronted them about it. But I know what you mean, you'd like to think a Southern Baptist church couldn't sink so low.

70 posted on 07/14/2003 7:31:50 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: DannyTN
I'm getting pretty sick and tired of people who identify themselves as Christian simply on the basis of "being loving." I know a woman in my former church who came out of a lesbian lifestyle and decided to go back into it a few years later. One of her roomates, a straight but silly and emotionally weak woman, all of a sudden up and married a woman one day. Took everyone by surprize, because she had been married to a man a few years prior and had dated men after her divorce. Looks like there was a different kind of evangelism taking place.

I am 47 and single. I have never been married and believe me, there are a lot of things I wish that Scripture didn't explicitly state. I fall short as we all do, but I'm not about to excuse my sin and call myself Christian because I have some cockeyed notion of "love." Nor will I comfort myself with the fact that Jesus loves me, or with the fact that He hung around sinners. The fact of the matter is that God loves every person equally....even the ones to whom He will say, "Depart from me, I never knew you." I cannot fathom how people think they are safe because they hold to some silly notion that not judging people equates with love. Jesus also said to the woman caught in adultery, "go and sin no more." He in no way excused her sin. A righteous God makes demands of us.....darn it!
71 posted on 07/14/2003 7:53:53 PM PDT by sixgunjer
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To: Fzob
don't smoke, never have...

72 posted on 07/14/2003 8:44:23 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: sixgunjer
One of her roomates, a straight but silly and emotionally weak woman, all of a sudden up and married a woman one day. Took everyone by surprize, because she had been married to a man a few years prior and had dated men after her divorce. Looks like there was a different kind of evangelism taking place.

** ** * * ***

It was not a marriage. It was her shaking up to engage in lesbian sex.

Support the FMA by writing to your representative and to you senators.
73 posted on 07/14/2003 8:46:41 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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Comment #74 Removed by Moderator

To: DannyTN
I suspected you would cite those groups. However, those were heretical groups, doctrinally unrelated to the Anabaptists, at least according to many authorities, including anabaptists.org:

Before telling the story of how the Mennonite Church began, it is necessary to enumerate a number of false theories of its origin. Some historians have imagined a connection between the radical Zwickau Prophets or the fanatical Thomas Muenzer and the founders of the Mennonite Church. But for this supposed connection there is not historical foundation. Other historians have gone astray in seeking to account for the rise of the Mennonite Church by interpreting the movement as a revolt of the lower classes. This social-economic theory is also unsupported by the facts. Indeed the chief founder of the Mennonite Church was the university-trained son of a rich family. The early leaders of the church did not preach social revolt; they proclaimed repentance and baptism. Another unsound theory is that the movement arose under the influence of Catholic monastic orders. A much less harmless theory but one that is also without historical support is that of Apostolic succession. According the this theory there has been a continuity of organization in small groups outside the Catholic church from A.D. 30 to 1525. Actually these non-Catholic groups differed widely from each other; all held some heretical views and in many cases had no connection with each other. Finally, there have been those who thought that the Mennonite Church was of Waldensian origin. Actually the Waldenses disappeared in Switzerland a century before the rise of the Anabaptist movement. (from The Anabaptist Story, William R. Estep, 1975)

75 posted on 07/14/2003 10:08:02 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: B Knotts
I don't know enough about the groups to say whether they held heretical ideas or not. I've just always heard that there were always groups outside of the Catholic church that studied the scriptures for themselves. And these ranged from organized groups to individuals and hermits.

Indeed, if you read the book of the Martyrs, you read about communities that were persecuted by Rome because they were reading and studying the scriptures for themselves.

I think there have always been Christians both outside and inside of the Roman Catholics.

And it is really not surprising that the protestants split as corrupt as the church had become at the time. It was Rome that had left the Gospel, not the Protestants that left the church.
76 posted on 07/14/2003 10:20:21 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: DannyTN
I cannot deny that there were corrupt actions taking place in the Catholic Church at the time; much of it was caused by clergy acting in the secular roles they often had.

And I am glad to see the Southern Baptists take action in this case, BTW. Someone who is going to be a pastor should at least subscribe to the basic beliefs of the church or denomination they supposedly belong to.

We are all sinners, but we also must repent of our sins.

77 posted on 07/14/2003 10:31:28 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: Jerry_M; drstevej; nwrep
When Kreis White's family was considering whether to join Glendale, he was told about Baker's sexual orientation. He didn't see it as relevant. "My kids got to help in the soup kitchen yesterday, and Habitat for Humanity is a blast. The activism is what attracted me," he said. Baker's sexual orientation is "such a small fraction of who she is," White said. "She is also a Braves fan, which I find horribly compelling. She is a gifted speaker, a great pulpit speaker. She is a very spiritual leader for the kids." Inclusiveness? Activism? How about simply preaching the Word of God? And a lesbian in the pulpit? No thanks! I am so glad the SBC and TBC handled this situation quickly. That is one women's retreat I would NEVER attend! :( I hope a good SBC affiliated church is there to receive the refugees.
78 posted on 07/14/2003 10:44:05 PM PDT by CARepubGal
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To: B Knotts
Someone who is going to be a pastor should at least subscribe to the basic beliefs of the church or denomination they supposedly belong to.

I agree, but there really isn't a central doctrine that members of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) are required to adhere to. I believe the SBC does require employees to sign a statement of faith, but individual churches may or may not.

It's a kinda weird system, but each church is independant and does not answer to the SBC.

In my opinion, not having a centralized dogma handed down from on high is both one of the greatest strengths and greatest weaknesses of being a Baptist. The typical small Southern Baptist congregation changes pastors every two years or less. Since there is no centralized dogma that every pastor is required to adhere to, the congregation tends to get a rather wide selection of views on the Bible over the years.

Most of the churches that I have attended would probably be called "Fundamentalist" congregations. They each chose pastors who were either basically conservative in perspective or smart enough to not let on that they weren't.

That doesn't mean they each taught every Scripture from the same perspective. There are a number of passages that can be approached from different perspectives. Growing up Southern Baptist taught me to respect other's opinions even if I don't agree with them.

On the other hand, it also means that you can't judge a church by the sign out front. I've been pretty shocked a few times by folks who claim the title "SBC" but share virtually nothing in common with my conservative upbringing.

79 posted on 07/14/2003 11:26:12 PM PDT by SWake ("Make it a cheeseburger" Lyle Lovett)
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To: CARepubGal
The SBC is headquartered in Nashville, so there are quite a few congregations in the area.
80 posted on 07/14/2003 11:27:32 PM PDT by SWake ("Make it a cheeseburger" Lyle Lovett)
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