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U.S. Reportedly Frees 11 Turkish Troops
AP ^ | 7/6/2003 | JAMES C. HELICKE

Posted on 07/06/2003 1:57:46 PM PDT by a_Turk

ISTANBUL, Turkey - The United States on Sunday released 11 Turkish special forces detained in northern Iraq (news - web sites), Turkish news reports said, ending a standoff that strained efforts by the NATO (news - web sites) allies to repair relations frayed over the Iraq war.

The soldiers were released in Baghdad, private CNN-Turk and NTV news channels reported. The soldiers will spend the night at a guesthouse before being taken Monday morning to the northern Iraqi city of Sulaymaniyah, where they had been captured Friday, the media reported.

The soldiers were released after a bustle of diplomacy that included telephone calls Sunday between Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) as well as another between U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) and Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul.

The detention of the Turkish special forces Friday in the northern Iraqi city of Sulaymaniyah outraged Turkey and deepened the public's mistrust of the United States.

Turkey has long had thousands of its soldiers in parts of northern Iraq to fight autonomy-seeking Kurdish rebels who have launched attacks against Turkey from bases in northern Iraq.

After the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, it also sent military advisers there to keep watch on Iraqi Kurds. Turkey fears that increasing Kurdish power in northern Iraq could encourage Kurdish rebels to revive fighting in Turkey's predominantly Kurdish southeast.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: irak; northernfront; turkey; turkeytroops; us
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To: a_Turk
Tricky subject there brother. I don't believe that United States went around raping torturing and humliating Al-Qadea BEFORE they launched their attacks on us.
41 posted on 07/06/2003 10:50:42 PM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: BlackVeil
So America's 30 year policy towards the Kurds will continue unchanged then?
42 posted on 07/06/2003 10:56:09 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Destro
Will you all be concerned with the Kurds when America turns it's back on them sooner or later?

Where was your American concern when Hussein was slaughtering them in 1991? Where was your compasion when American supplied weapons were being used by the Turkish military to slaughter them?

Americans...
43 posted on 07/07/2003 1:24:57 AM PDT by Phatheon
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To: Mortimer Snavely
Does anyone really expect the Turks to just sit by quietly and twiddle their thumbs while we arm their sworn enemies and then deride them for hunting down these terrorist scum like mad dogs?

The conditions in Iraq are such that we cannot allow every nation in the region to meddle at this particular time.....that's the point. We're telling Iran to butt out, Syria as well, and that should go for Turkey. France, Germany, and Russia as well.

They were offered an opportunity to partake in the action against Iraq, and declined. So I see no reason to allow them interfere now.

44 posted on 07/07/2003 4:39:33 AM PDT by He Rides A White Horse (For or against us.........)
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To: Mortimer Snavely
Turkey didn't want to offend its Muslim brothers and the European Union; they were more of an ally to France and Germany through this whole ordeal.

The days of stabbing the United States in the back while posing as an 'ally' should come to a rapid end.

Duplicitous nations like Saudi Arabia, France, Germany have played this game far too long; Turkey decided to join this not-so-illustrious group. Let them reap the fruit.

45 posted on 07/07/2003 4:47:51 AM PDT by He Rides A White Horse (For or against us.........)
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To: Mortimer Snavely
....it's always the same.......take France for example. They spit in our faces, yet we'll have people running around America worrying about French/ American relations, and how the United States should go about patching things up.

Let the French worry about patching things up. Turkey as well. Neither is as important as they may want to believe.

46 posted on 07/07/2003 4:52:08 AM PDT by He Rides A White Horse (For or against us.........)
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To: Mortimer Snavely
Arming the Kurds was absolutely the single stupidest thing we could ever have done. This will turn out very badly for us.

Grabbing a sleeping lion by the tail and yanking as hard as you can is a stupid thing to do......and that is what the Islamofascists did on 9-11. So let countries in that region decide where they want to stand; behind the lion, or in front of him, getting raked and mauled.

47 posted on 07/07/2003 4:57:23 AM PDT by He Rides A White Horse (For or against us.........)
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To: He Rides A White Horse
During Gulf War One Turkey was the very first nation to respond to Hussein, cutting the order with Iraq the very day after the invasion of Kuwait. As a result, the Turkish economy went into a nose dive. Bush I promised economic aid to take up the slack, but never delivered.

For the next decade Turkey suffered extreme economic hardship, all the while fighting these same Kurds we are now arming. The PKK increased its attacks, massacring anyone and everyone in Southeastern Turkey who disagreed with them. Turkish security was degraded, not enhanced, as a result of the First Gulf War.

After 9/11 Turkish soldiers found themselves in Afghanistan, commanding ISAF forces there.

In regards to Iraq, Turkey was chomping at the bit to supplement its military forces in Northern Iraq with tanks and infantry and rockets and artillery and air forces and stuff, but this was declined by Washington, who, for some reason, decided to start arming Kurdish forces. Once again, Turkey found itself with the prospect of its security even more degraded.

By arming totalitarians hell bent on the destruction of Anatolia and the establishment of either a Marxist-Leninist state or a political entity governed by Islam, somehow the current US administration thinks that peace and security can be established.

At the same time, the Turks are expected to do absolutely nothing while terrorists dedicated to their destruction consolidate power and continue their attacks, apparently under US protection.

When all the Kurdish rhetoric about "oppression," "self determination," "freedom," and "democracy" are filtered through, basic Kurdish political theory can be reduced to three words: People Fear Death. This is the ideology with which we are now allied.

Turkey had a 9-11 a couple of times a year for about ten years. They have been on the front lines against the Communists and the Islamists for nigh on eighty years now.

Once again, the USA is undermining its allies, like JFK sponsoring the assassination of President Diem in South Vietnam, and stranding anti-communist Cubans at the Bay of Pigs.

Once again, an allied government is going to be undermined and their people slaughtered wholesale by Communists, with American complicity, all without any policy or direction being formulated or imagined in the White House, without any consideration of the long-term consequences, accompanied by stern admonishment that the people getting killed had better stop doing everything necessary to defend themselves.

48 posted on 07/07/2003 8:18:29 AM PDT by Mortimer Snavely (Is anyone else tired of reading these tag lines?)
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To: Mortimer Snavely
"cutting the order with Iraq" = "cutting the border with Iraq"
49 posted on 07/07/2003 8:19:44 AM PDT by Mortimer Snavely (Is anyone else tired of reading these tag lines?)
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To: rightofrush
The Kurds are the largest ethnic group (outside sub-Saharan Africa) without a nation state - one of the many injustices the UK has done.
  1. Why does this premise entitle them to a nation state ?
  2. How is this a UK injustice ? As I recall the US had to fight for its independence from the UK and win.
  3. Did the Kurds fight for theirs and win ?
  4. A large portion of the art of war is gaining (and keeping) allies.

50 posted on 07/07/2003 9:17:34 AM PDT by af_vet_1981
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To: af_vet_1981
Why does this premise entitle them to a nation state ?

There is far more justification for Kurdish nationa l state than Iraq, Syria, Jordan, or any other Arab state that was carved from the Ottoman Empire. BTW, there are more Kurds than Amenians.

How is this a UK injustice?

They, with some help from the French, drew the boundry lines. They didn't want the Kurds to have any say or control over the oil fields that are now in Iraq.

As I recall the US had to fight for its independence from the UK and win. Did the Kurds fight for theirs and win?

They have been fighting. Without the French, we wouldn't have had a chance.

A large portion of the art of war is gaining (and keeping) allies.

Its their fault they haven't had a Ben Franklin to kiss French butt?

51 posted on 07/07/2003 2:24:01 PM PDT by rightofrush (,)
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To: rightofrush
There is far more justification for Kurdish national state than Iraq, Syria, Jordan, or any other Arab state that was carved from the Ottoman Empire. BTW, there are more Kurds than Amenians.

How many divisions do they have ?

They, with some help from the French, drew the boundary lines. They didn't want the Kurds to have any say or control over the oil fields that are now in Iraq.

Obviously the Kurds had no more clout than say, ..., the Navajo.

They have been fighting. Without the French, we wouldn't have had a chance.

What battles have they fought ?
I'm not interested in what civilians they have killed.

Its their fault they haven't had a Ben Franklin to kiss French butt?

Do they have any natural religious or political allies or are they completely isolated and fighting among themselves ?

The UN does not care too much about the plight of any dispossessed ethnic group unless that ethnic group murders Jews. That makes them a cause celebre worthy of UN involvement. Otherwise the Kurds need other allies. Turkey, Iran, and Iraq have contained them so far. Maybe they could pick up six judges on the court to espouse their cause ?

52 posted on 07/07/2003 3:52:40 PM PDT by af_vet_1981
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To: Mortimer Snavely
I can appreciate your points, and you are obviously well versed in the history of the region; for my part I will say that Turkey may have acted in good faith in the past, but they have not recently. I believe that the considerations that are driving them at the present, and at the outbreak of Gulf War Two, was a desire to please their European friends in order to join the European Union; a group of people whose interests are increasingly at odds with that of the United States.
53 posted on 07/08/2003 5:02:58 AM PDT by He Rides A White Horse (For or against us.........)
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To: He Rides A White Horse
Perhaps you did not understand the post.

Turkish security was degraded after the First Gulf War. The nation suffered, as in it cost Turkey rivers of blood and towering piles of money.

With US support of Islamist and Marxist-Leninist guerilla groups who want nothing less than the dismemberment of Anatolia, Turkey is going to suffer more terrorism, like a renewed PKK offensive, as in a resurgence of mass murder, as in a 9-11 event everday for the forseeable future, only this time with the USA telling them that they can't do anything to stop it.

In other words, Turkey will suffer serious grief from our Kurdish Red allies. Turkey will be seriously hurt by our actions.

Do you really expect any nation to cooperate with actions which will get several more thousands of their citizens killed? After offering a couple of armored divisions to support US efforts in Iraq, they were declined. Later, US links with PKK/KADEK were proved, and US efforts in Iraq became extremely unpopular in Turkey, because the USA started arming their mortal enemies and essentially told them to grin and cheerfully endure any renewed terror campaign against them.

Does this strike you as sane?

What would you think of me if I gave a psychopath screaming for the blood of you and your family a submachine gun and a dozen hand grenades, and then told you to just sit down and shut up when he sneaks into your backyard? This is exactly how US/Turkish relations are proceeding.

54 posted on 07/08/2003 8:17:38 AM PDT by Mortimer Snavely (Is anyone else tired of reading these tag lines?)
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To: Mortimer Snavely
Later, US links with PKK/KADEK were proved, and US efforts in Iraq became extremely unpopular in Turkey, because the USA started arming their mortal enemies and essentially told them to grin and cheerfully endure any renewed terror campaign against them.

What would you think of me if I gave a psychopath screaming for the blood of you and your family a submachine gun and a dozen hand grenades, and then told you to just sit down and shut up when he sneaks into your backyard?

Very well, MS. I should only hope that Turkey will be consistent if we are compelled to level Mecca at some point in time. They do the same thing.

55 posted on 07/08/2003 4:54:22 PM PDT by He Rides A White Horse (For or against us.........)
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To: He Rides A White Horse
You still don't get it.

In the Twenties the Turksih Republic was established. To do this, several things happened, which destroyed the influence of political:

1922 Sultanate abolished.
1924 Caliphate abolished. Traditional religious schools closed, sharia abolished. Constitution adopted.
1925 Dervish brotherhoods abolished.
Fez outlawed by the Hat Law. Veiling of women discouraged; Western clothing for men and women encouraged. Western calendar adopted.
1926 New civil, commercial, and penal codes based on European models adopted. New civil code ended Islamic polygamy and divorce by renunciation and introduced civil marriage.
1928 New Turkish alphabet adopted. State declared secular; constitutional provision establishing Islam as official religion deleted.
1933 Islamic call to worship and public readings of the Kuran required to be in Turkish rather than Arabic.
1934 Women given the vote and the right to hold office. Law of Surnames adopted--Mustafa Kemal given the name Kemal Atatürk (Father Turk) by the Grand National Assembly; Ismet Pasha took surname of Inönü.
1935 Sunday adopted as legal weekly holiday.

Most Turks are Muslim the same way most French are Catholic. This is the way things should be.

By arming and validating mass-murdering Communist terrorists, and then trying to get the rest of us to imagine them as allies in the pursuit of Iraqi national integrity and the natural rights of humanity articulated in the Declaration of Independence is the most unpatriotic, cynical, and idiotic swindle ever foisted on the American people ever since JFK decided to leave anti-communist Cubans stranded on the beach at the Bay of Pigs.

Our behavior in regards to Turkey and the PKK is shameful, and will produce nothing but disaster.

56 posted on 07/08/2003 11:25:28 PM PDT by Mortimer Snavely (Is anyone else tired of reading these tag lines?)
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To: Mortimer Snavely
"the influence of political: = the influence of political Islam"

Turkey's a bastion of liberal democracy in a horrible, totalitarian neighborhood. We are arming their sworn enemies, and should be ashamed of ourselves.

57 posted on 07/08/2003 11:28:04 PM PDT by Mortimer Snavely (Is anyone else tired of reading these tag lines?)
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To: Mortimer Snavely
I do get it........and we'll see just how 'secular' Turkey is when we start clobbering their Muslim brothers.
58 posted on 07/10/2003 3:02:59 PM PDT by He Rides A White Horse (For or against us.........)
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To: He Rides A White Horse
I make a distinction between Muslims and Islamists.

Muslims generally want to live their lives unmolested in free society and are extremely good neighbors. Their young women worry about the latest fashion trends, and resonate well to the social paradigm which characterized the USA of fifty years ago. Their young men like girls, beer, and soccer. Both Muslim young women and young men tend to hang out in libraries and are punctual with their homework. They are successful at whatever task they set their minds and hands to do in free society. Generally, their character is unimpeachable.They govern themselves admirably.

In contrast, Islamists want to reduce the planet to a copy of some 7th century Arabic tribal political entity, and will kill themselves in an attempt to kill us to achieve this political goal.

Turkey has made this distinction national policy. This is just one reason why I usually support Turks and wish their country nothing but good.

59 posted on 07/10/2003 11:47:32 PM PDT by Mortimer Snavely (Ban tag lines!)
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