Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

'Black box' reveals all about how you drive
Tacoma News Tribune ^ | June 29th, 2003 | MATTHEW FORDAHL

Posted on 06/29/2003 9:38:26 AM PDT by microgood

No one disputes that Michelle Zimmermann lost control of her 2002 GMC Yukon as she drove on a two-lane highway in Massachusetts one snowy afternoon last January. Her friend died after the SUV slammed into a tree.

Zimmermann claims she was driving within the posted 40-mph speed limit, but like millions of other Americans the 33-year-old didn't know that her vehicle had a "black box." Monitoring her driving, it recorded the last few seconds before the crash.

Bolstered by data that they say indicates Zimmermann was driving well above the speed limit, prosecutors have charged the Beverly, Mass., woman with negligent vehicular homicide. She has pleaded not guilty and faces up to 2 1/2 years in jail if convicted.

An estimated 25 million automobiles in the United States now have so-called event data recorders, a scaled-down version of the devices that monitor cockpit activity in airplanes. Like aviation recorders, automobile black boxes mainly receive attention after an accident.

What the devices record increasingly finds its way into courtrooms as evidence in criminal and civil cases, leading some privacy advocates to question how the recorders came to be installed so widely with so little public notice or debate.

"It's like having a government agent driving around in the back seat of your car," said Bob Weiner, Zimmermann's defense attorney and a former prosecutor. "I think it's a tremendous invasion of privacy."

Most people apparently don't know whether the vehicles they drive are equipped with event data recorders. Nearly two-thirds of people surveyed by an insurance industry group knew nothing about them.

"The real issue is one of notice, and the problem arises from the fact that information is being collected about people's driving behavior without them knowing," said David Sobel, general counsel of the Electronic Privacy Information Center. "If drivers knew about the device, they could at least then begin asking questions."

Automakers and regulators have ignored basic privacy questions, leaving individual courts to decide such issues as who owns the information and whether a warrant is required to access it, he said. Some studies have questioned the data's reliability and accuracy.

Prosecutors, police and accident reconstructionists say the boxes yield information no different from what can be gleaned from crushed metal, skid marks and other evidence at the scene. Now, they say, calculations can be backed up.

"It's appearing in prosecutors' cases in support of the normal reconstruction," said W.R. "Rusty" Haight, director of the Collision Safety Institute.

A number of recent court cases across the country have involved event data recorders.

In early June, Edwin Matos of Pembroke Pines, Fla., was sentenced to 30 years in prison for slamming his car into a vehicle driven by two teenage girls, killing both. Data from the recorder showed he was driving more than 100 mph just seconds before the crash.

In April, Arlington Heights, Ill., police officer Charles Tiedje received a $10 million settlement after data from the hearse that struck his squad car contradicted claims that the driver blacked out. The device showed the supposedly unconscious driver accelerated and braked in the moments before the October 2000 crash.

The devices' primary function is to monitor various sensors and decide whether to fire air bags. But secondary and more recently installed features in many recorders store data from a few seconds before a crash.

Though capabilities vary widely among carmakers, most recorders store only limited information on speed, seat belt use, physical forces, brakes and other factors. Voices are not recorded.

General Motors Corp. has been using recording-capable devices, called Sensing and Diagnostic Modules, since the 1990s to help improve safety and gather statistics. GM spokesman Jim Schell said consumer privacy has always been a top concern.

"We collect the data with the permission of the owner or the person who is leasing the vehicle," he said. "When that data is collected, we take great care to assure confidentiality."

The modules helped GM figure out why some air bags were deploying inadvertently, leading to a recall in 1998 of more than 850,000 Cavaliers and Sunfires.

But there's a lot more interest in the data beyond engineering - namely, from lawyers.

GM and, more recently, Ford Motor Co. now allow outsiders to access the data by buying a $2,500 reader built by Santa Barbara, Calif.-based Vetronix Corp. The company says its primary customers are accident reconstructionists, law enforcement and insurance companies.

So far, about 1,000 of the devices have been sold, primarily in the United States and Canada. The company hopes to reach deals to cover data from other carmakers.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has been studying data recorders for years, trying to determine whether the auto industry should standardize the equipment. Any decision could be years away, and there's no guarantee privacy would be addressed then. Agency spokesman Tim Hurd said state courts should decide what's admissible.

Haight, a former San Diego police officer, dismisses the privacy concerns because driving - and crashes - are public.

But Sobel argues that drivers at the very least have a right to know that their actions might be recorded. He also fears that data recorders will converge with other devices - such as locators and voice recorders - now finding their way into cars.

"It's hard to say that there is general public acceptance of this when the public has no idea about it," he said.

Associated Press writer Toshi Maeda in San Jose contributed to this report.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120121-135 next last
To: discostu
Time already has told. If you were right they'd be doing it already.

Only GM has stated the memory duration of their Event Data Recorder modules. Even if GM is being honest, you don't have any more of a clue of what the other automotive manufacturers are doing now, let alone what they will do in the future.

101 posted on 06/29/2003 8:06:51 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: discostu
So really what's the point, if there was any chance at all you'd admit you were wrong it might be worth it, but you'll go to the grave chanting "wait and see".

Yeah, yeah. People like you called me "paranoid" for distrusting the Sociial Security card becoming a national identification card too. Seems like I lived long enough to see that one come true.

102 posted on 06/29/2003 8:09:13 PM PDT by nightdriver
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 100 | View Replies]

To: microgood
Oh my God it's going to call 911 when you get in an accident, the horror.
103 posted on 06/29/2003 8:09:37 PM PDT by discostu (you've got to bleed for the dancer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]

To: Ronaldus Magnus
Ah yes a favorite paranoid argument: you can't believe what you've read it's filled with lies.

Whatever.
104 posted on 06/29/2003 8:11:28 PM PDT by discostu (you've got to bleed for the dancer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 101 | View Replies]

To: nightdriver
No you haven't it's not a national identification card, ID cards have your picture, and a modicum of forgery protection is also handy. Now the number has become the key to the universe, but the card is just a worthless piece of cardstock.
105 posted on 06/29/2003 8:13:41 PM PDT by discostu (you've got to bleed for the dancer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 102 | View Replies]

To: discostu
Only GM has said anything about the memory duration of their Event Data Recorder modules. There is nothing to believe about the durations of the modules in other manufacturer's vehicles, no matter how deluded you are.
106 posted on 06/29/2003 8:16:13 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 104 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN
Those boxes must be psychic if they know to begin recording 5 seconds before impact :)
107 posted on 06/29/2003 8:17:27 PM PDT by plusone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN
You just don't get it do you?

Sure I do. We just disagree.

It's not that public moves are being recorded. It's how. It's by the use of a device secretly installed inside my vehicle. The inside of a vehicle has always been considered by law to be an extension of your private domain.

The device is not recording anything that is done inside of your vehicle. It's recording what your vehicle has done on the road. I see that as a different issue.

By what stretch of the imagination would you consider the speed at which your car was driving when it rear-ended someone "private"? Give me a good reason why you think that information should be confidential and I may side with you; but I see so many advantages of having each car equipped with a black box and see no disadvantages. Granted, if the government attempts to go further and set up real-time monitoring of everyone's car or pulls people over for no reason, just to download info on their driving habits for the past month - then I would be with you.

But just because a monitoring devices like a black box exists doesn't mean that it will be abused. As long as it remains in the sole possession of the driver unless in the case of an accident or other violation, I don't see the problem.

108 posted on 06/29/2003 8:18:18 PM PDT by PMCarey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 85 | View Replies]

To: discostu
"...but the card is just a worthless piece of cardstock."

Card - number - samo samo. You are more naive than your otherwise lucid posts indicate.

109 posted on 06/29/2003 8:18:38 PM PDT by nightdriver
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 105 | View Replies]

To: Ronaldus Magnus
Notice it took you three times to say that without throwing in an aside questioning the veracity of GM's statement. The mark of a delusional paranoid.
110 posted on 06/29/2003 8:20:18 PM PDT by discostu (you've got to bleed for the dancer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 106 | View Replies]

To: PMCarey; DannyTN
The device is not recording anything that is done inside of your vehicle. It's recording what your vehicle has done on the road.

Then why do they record whether or not I am wearing my seat belt?

111 posted on 06/29/2003 8:21:44 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 108 | View Replies]

To: discostu
You are still stating as unquestionable fact things about the other manufacturers that they have never stated. It is you who are delusional, my sick, sick friend!
112 posted on 06/29/2003 8:24:55 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 110 | View Replies]

To: nightdriver
No not the same. You said "national identifaction card" that has a very specific meaning and the SocSec card does not match that meaning. Cops don't ask to see your SocSec when they pull you over, clerks don't ask for your SocSec when taking your check, the SocSec card does not provide proof of identification.

Thanks for proving me right, the paranoids are physically incapable of admiting when they are wrong.
113 posted on 06/29/2003 8:25:34 PM PDT by discostu (you've got to bleed for the dancer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 109 | View Replies]

To: nightdriver
The reason why people are worried about this is that out of 50 drivers on the road, 49 speed and the one that doesn't is a hazard to all of the rest. So, sure if the government can monitor this information or download it without probable cause, we should all be concerned. However, if the black box is limited to a few seconds worth of data and is only retrieved in the case of a collision, I don't see why anyone should object.
114 posted on 06/29/2003 8:26:14 PM PDT by PMCarey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: Ronaldus Magnus
Sure thing paranoid freakazoid gooberboy. Watch out for that fly on your wall, it's not a fly it's a government camera, you know why it hangs out in your bathroom all the time, it's counting, more than three times you know.
115 posted on 06/29/2003 8:27:40 PM PDT by discostu (you've got to bleed for the dancer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 112 | View Replies]

To: discostu
Watch out for that fly on your wall, it's not a fly it's a government camera, you know why it hangs out in your bathroom all the time, it's counting, more than three times you know.

Only in you little world, your sick little world...

116 posted on 06/29/2003 8:29:01 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 115 | View Replies]

To: Ronaldus Magnus
Liability protection, same reason it records the airbag deployment. People frequently sue the automaker trying to claim the seatbelt failed, with this they can prove the seatbelt never had a chance to fail since it wasn't used.
117 posted on 06/29/2003 8:29:33 PM PDT by discostu (you've got to bleed for the dancer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 111 | View Replies]

To: Ronaldus Magnus
Then why do they record whether or not I am wearing my seat belt?

I suppose because it'll help them determine why your body ended up in a mangled mess across the hood of your car when you ran off the road.

118 posted on 06/29/2003 8:29:40 PM PDT by PMCarey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 111 | View Replies]

To: Ronaldus Magnus
Yeah my sick world where the government isn't actually spying on you 24/ 7, where chips that provide the exact same information an accident investigator can aren't the nefarious nose of Big Brother, and where I don't have to lay doubt at every statement of corporate America. Sure is a sick world, filled with freedom and trust.
119 posted on 06/29/2003 8:31:46 PM PDT by discostu (you've got to bleed for the dancer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 116 | View Replies]

To: discostu
Liability protection, same reason it records the airbag deployment. People frequently sue the automaker trying to claim the seatbelt failed, with this they can prove the seatbelt never had a chance to fail since it wasn't used.

Now you're being paranoid.

120 posted on 06/29/2003 8:31:50 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 117 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120121-135 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson