Microsoft wins Java Appeal

CNET News ^ | June 26 | CNET

[Bush2000]

Microsoft wins appeal in Java case
Windows will not have to include Sun product, court says

A federal appeals court dealt a legal blow to Sun Microsystems on Thursday, tossing out most of a preliminary injunction requiring Microsoft to carry its rival's version of an interpreter for the Java programming language.

But the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Va., upheld a requirement that Microsoft cease distributing certain copies of its own Java virtual machine, saying that Microsoft "exceeded the scope" of a January 2001 license agreement with Sun. The three-judge panel said the agreement only gives Microsoft the right to include its own Java VM in Windows, not to offer it separately through computer makers or through Windows Update, which Microsoft stopped doing in February.

The panel devoted the bulk of its28-page opinion assailing other portions of an injunction imposed on Microsoft by a district court earlier this year. In explaining the need for the injunction, U.S. District Judge J. Frederick Motz concluded there was a "serious risk" that the market could tip away from Java and toward Microsoft's .NET.

"We conclude that the district court's findings are insufficient to support its conclusion that immediate irreparable harm will be sustained if the mandatory preliminary injunction is not entered, and accordingly that injunction must be vacated," the panel said Thursday.

Both companies said they were "pleased" with the decision.

"We are extremely pleased with the appellate court's ruling today affirming the copyright infringement injunction," Lee Patch, Sun's vice president for legal affairs, said in a statement. "This decision confirms that Microsoft violated our prior settlement agreement, and that it did so in a way that continued to fragment the Java platform on PCs."

But Patch said he was "disappointed" that the appeals court rejected the must-carry requirement.

The case now returns to Motz for further proceedings and an eventual trial, unless the companies agree to a settlement.

In December, Motz concluded that Sun stood a good chance of winning its antitrust lawsuit against Microsoft and told both sides to craft a preliminary injunction, which he approved on Jan. 21.

In his 11-page order, Motz gave Sun what it requested when filing the lawsuit: an injunction ordering Microsoft immediately to stop distributing incompatible versions of Sun's Java interpreter and to begin shipping authorized versions with Windows and Internet Explorer in four months.

Microsoft immediately appealed Motz's decision to the 4th Circuit, calling it "extreme and unprecedented" and accusing Sun of violating a California law prohibiting unfair competition. On Feb. 4, a three-judge panel of the appeals court put Motz's injunction on hold until the panel could hear oral arguments--which took place on Apr. 3--and reach its own decision.

Sun's case builds on a previous legal assault on its rival, which began in October 1997 and alleged that Microsoft violated its license agreement by distributing incompatible versions of Java and deceptively promoting those versions as compatible. The two companies settled in January 2001, with Microsoft agreeing to pay Sun $20 million and inking a contract governing how Microsoft could distribute Java.

The Java language lets programs run without alterations on a variety of computers. Because a Java program can run, for instance, on a mainframe from IBM, a Unix server from Sun and a Windows PC from Dell Computer, it represents a possible threat to Microsoft's dominant Windows OS.

In an internal e-mail message dated September 1996, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates wrote that the Java platform "scares the hell out of me" because it's "still very unclear to me what our OS will offer to Java client applications code that will make them unique enough to preserve our market position."

[Bush2000]

Don't say you weren't warned that Sun's lawyers hadn't proved irreparable harm. I predicted months ago that this would be overturned. You lose.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

The whole thing is a joke.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Previous post meaning; if I build and sell something, what right does someone else have to tell me how I should make it?

[InterceptPoint]

I predicted months ago that this would be overturned.

As it should have been. When we look back 10 years from now Java (write once, debug everywhere) will once again be associated with coffee and not software, Sun will belong to IBM or GE or some company that believes it is products that make a company not lawyers and Microsoft....well they will still be the biggest software company in the world.

[firewalk]

.

[Nick Danger]

There is an excellent commentary on this over on Slashdot, and I think it desrves more exposure:

by Saeed al-Sahaf on Thursday June 26, @03:55PM

I can say, and I am responsible for what I am saying, that these Java nerds have started to commit suicide under the walls of Microsoft. We will encourage them to commit more suicides quickly. I can assure you that those villains will recognize, will discover in appropriate time in the future how stupid they are and how they are pretending things which have never been a reality, this Java.

[Bush2000]

Previous post meaning; if I build and sell something, what right does someone else have to tell me how I should make it?

In general, the courts have given great deference to companies in building their products. In this case, however, "Judge" Motz (quotes intentional) bought the shell game proposed by Sun's lawyers -- that Java faced irreparable harm -- without any proof, and ther appeals court gagged on his hairball ruling.

Bottom line: If Sun wants Java on every PC shipped by OEMs, let it negotiate with those same OEMs. It shouldn't get advantages it doesn't deserve or need. Tens of thousands of other software companies would love to ship their software on every PC. But Sun was given that exclusive privilege based on a ridiculously inadequate set of assertions.

[Pearls Before Swine]

Here's a contrary indicator confirming your views: In high schools, the Advanced Placement CS courses shift from teaching C++ to Java next year. I think that's likely a contrary indicator of success, like being named Time's Man of the Year.

[Bush2000]

Java is a reasonably good language. I use it myself. I just don't view it as a cure for cancer or a one-size-fits-all-development-tool like some of the idiots around here (they know who they are). The problem with Java is that its caretaker (a) doesn't understand software, (b) sees Java primarily as a way to sell more hardware, (c) focuses too much energy on Microsoft when it should be competing against IBM and HP. It's only a matter of time before people say, "Sun Microsystems? Oh, yeah. They were one of those dotcom outfits back in the 90s, right?"

[Bush2000]

Here's a contrary indicator confirming your views: In high schools, the Advanced Placement CS courses shift from teaching C++ to Java next year. I think that's likely a contrary indicator of success, like being named Time's Man of the Year.

I don't have a problem with Java The Language. It's close enough to C# and other managed languages that the differences are pretty slight. My complaint is with the morons at Sun that hinder its ISO/ECMA standardization.

[Pearls Before Swine]

My complaint is with the morons at Sun that hinder its ISO/ECMA standardization.

I hear you.

[snarkpup]

I don't have a problem with Java The Language. It's close enough to C# and other managed languages that the differences are pretty slight. My complaint is with the morons at Sun that hinder its ISO/ECMA standardization.

Yep! Sun makes changes in the libraries from release to release that are not always backward compatible. This means that if we test our Java application on, say, version 1.3.1_04 of the Java run-time environment (JRE), our installer must guarantee the user's machine has a copy of version 1.3.1_04 of the JRE. As far as we are concerned, any other versions of the JRE that are already on the user's machine (like whichever one Microsoft was supposed to pre-install) are irrelevent.

[snarkpup]

Java is a reasonably good language. I use it myself. I just don't view it as a cure for cancer or a one-size-fits-all-development-tool like some of the idiots around here (they know who they are). The problem with Java is that its caretaker (a) doesn't understand software, (b) sees Java primarily as a way to sell more hardware, (c) focuses too much energy on Microsoft when it should be competing against IBM and HP. It's only a matter of time before people say, "Sun Microsystems? Oh, yeah. They were one of those dotcom outfits back in the 90s, right?"

I grew up on Suns and hated PCs for many years because of the latter's awful development environment. When Sun introduced Java, all the Java integrated development environments appeared on the PC; so I abandoned the Sun and migrated all my work to the PC.

Several years ago I asked a manager at Sun how it fitted into their plan that all the good Java development environments only ran on Windows. He didn't have an answer.

[Nick Danger]

focuses too much energy on Microsoft when it should be competing against IBM and HP

A lot of people think that. It's like Ray Noorda's obsession with Microsoft about 10 years ago. It caused him to take his eye off the ball.

I don't understand Sun's success. I would have bet on their doom a dozen times. In 1984 some headhunter came after me about the marketing job there (the job Carol Bartz took), and I wouldn't even talk to him about it. My mistake :)

A few years later they were launching their own RISC chip. Oh right, small-volume guy signs up to maintain a chip architecture... there's a sure bet. They're still making the damned things. There is no excuse for them still being in business, but there they are with $5 billion in the bank. It is a mystery.

All seriousness aside, if this article were about politics, people here would be screaming "media bias." The copyright infringement part of this suit was upheld. What got zapped was the proposed remedy (which I agree deserved a good zapping). A more reasonable headline would have been "Ruling mixed." If "Microsoft Wins" is the Reuters headline, then the Fox headline is "Microsoft guilty of copyright infringement."

It sounds like a more modest remedy -- like handing over a bag of money -- is still in store.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

What a novel idea! Let's call it "competition on the open market", shall we? Those that oppose capitalism....what are they called....statists?

[RedBloodedAmerican]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=capitalism

[Incorrigible]

Ha! Ha! Ha!  Hey Scott, give us one of your classic Microsoft zingers.  Ha!  Can't think of one right now?  Sucker!

 

If only Sun had thanked Microsoft for getting the JVM to actually run fast on at least one platform!  Instead, they sue.

Visual Studio .NET is a great development environment and it's only at version 2.  Version 3 will be the JAVA killer.

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind Sunny boys!

[dark_lord]

Visual Studio .NET is a great development environment and it's only at version 2. Version 3 will be the JAVA killer.

You are half right.

.NET is pretty nice, but it doesn't run from the desktop to the mainframe. So Java will survive because J2EE will survive. In fact, J2EE and .NET are already pretty similar in terms of functionality and their interoperability will only continue to grow.

Sun as a company, however, is probably doomed.

[AmericaUnited]

Ditto! DotNet is going to be a Java killer. I like that it's not restricted to any one language.