[Grut]

Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it....

On the other hand, Juvenal was pretty much of a crank and given to villifying those who didn't come up to his standards, so he is really a better model for Liberals.

[Antoninus]

On the other hand, Juvenal was pretty much of a crank and given to villifying those who didn't come up to his standards, so he is really a better model for Liberals.

Yeah, I guess you're right. The vile debauchery and gut-wrenching effeminization of Roman men had nothing to do with their downfall. The messanger was a crank, after all.

[ffusco]

Hardly, Juvenal was an arch conservative who lamented the loss of Roman civic virtue.