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Y Chromosomes Rewrite British History
Nature ^
| 6-19-2003
| Hannah Hoag
Posted on 06/24/2003 10:33:30 AM PDT by blam
click here to read article
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To: blam
Maybe we can figure out who were the
Fomorians. My hunch is that they were African sea people.
21
posted on
06/24/2003 11:16:49 AM PDT
by
blam
To: blam
Are they related to the sumbitches? (We could be related, lol)Could be; that's what she called the rest of my family...Glad to meet you Cuz...
22
posted on
06/24/2003 11:28:50 AM PDT
by
trebb
To: blam
The problem is that according to Capt, the Brits are Celts, aka "Saac's sons." The Y chromosome research here distinguishes the Celts from the Anglo-Saxons.
To: blam
The Y chromosomes of men from Wales and Ireland resemble those of the Basques. Some believe that the Basques, from the border of France and Spain, are the original Europeans. Very interesting. That means that the Celts originally didn't speak an I-E language, which makes sense. I wonder if that explains Pictish.
To: Question_Assumptions
*The Y chromosomes of men from Wales and Ireland resemble those of the Basques. Some believe that the Basques, from the border of France and Spain, are the original Europeans. **Very interesting. That means that the Celts originally didn't speak an I-E language, which makes sense. I wonder if that explains Pictish.
That's a huge leap, since there is no evidence that the Celts ever spoke anything but an I-E language. All that's being claimed is that there is some similarity between Celt and Basque Y-chromosomes. There are no details as to any hypothesized timeframe of divergence.
To: blam
Some Scottish men's Y's are remarkably similar to those of southern England.Depends which bit of Scotland the men tested came from, I should imagine.
IIRC, the Angles were colonising what is now southern Scotland at exactly the same time as the Scots were arriving from Ireland.
To: blam
ping for the bees in the room
27
posted on
06/24/2003 12:05:39 PM PDT
by
CGVet58
(I still miss my ex-wife... but my aim is improving!)
To: Sabertooth
That's a huge leap, since there is no evidence that the Celts ever spoke anything but an I-E language. Sloppy writing on my part. Since the Celts are defined, in part, by an I-E language, this is true. What I meant is that the peoples of the British Isles had a pre-Celtic language. The Picts are, by many, considered non-Celtic.
All that's being claimed is that there is some similarity between Celt and Basque Y-chromosomes. There are no details as to any hypothesized timeframe of divergence.
Indo-European like came out of the Caspian Sea region and the Celts first came out of Central Europe and into the British Isles circa 1000BC. Unless the British Isles were unpopulated at that point (very unlikely), there was a pre-Celtic language population there that had to speak something else -- possibly a Basque-like language.
To: Question_Assumptions
Other than 1,000 BC being a little early for the Celts, I don't have a problem with your #28. So, I'm confused by the earlier comment about the Celts having a pre-IE language, since you now seem to distinguish them from both the Picts and the Basques.
To: blam
SPOTREP
To: Sabertooth
As I said, it was sloppy writing on my part. I wrote "The Celts" when I meant "The people of the British Isles". What you need to remember is that the movement of a language and culture does not necessarily require a replacement of the existing population. Indeed, Robert Drews argues that the spread of the I-E languages was performed largely by small groups of people who spread their culture to, and mixed with, indiginous populations, much as this article argues that the spread of Anglo-Saxon culture into the British Isles was more a matter of language and culture than genetics.
There were a lot of non-IE European languages including Basque, Finnish, Hungarian, Etruscan, and possibly Pictish. Most were replaced by various Indo-European dialects, much as I-E languages took over Anatolia, Persia, and Nothern India. Since Celtic language and culture migrated into British Isles and since the Scots are genetically linked to the Basques, it makes some sense to assume that pre-Celtic Scots spoke a language in the same family as Basque or that the Celts that migrated into Scotland spoke some sort of Basque-related language before becoming Celts.
To: Sabertooth
The Y chromosomes of men from Wales and Ireland resemble those of the Basques. Some believe that the Basques, from the border of France and Spain, are the original Europeans. I've met some Basques. Aside from having hemongously long names, pronounced as if they were all consonents, with lots of q's and k's and such, they seem like any other Europeans. Related to the Welsh? Could be. Does it matter to a Welshman that there was once a Basque in the woodpile?
32
posted on
06/24/2003 12:58:25 PM PDT
by
PatrickHenry
(Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
To: blam
Wasn't there another article a couple of weeks ago saying just the opposite: that Y chromosomes show that the population of England had been almost entirely displaced at the time of the Anglo-Saxon invasions?
Comment #34 Removed by Moderator
To: Question_Assumptions
"That means that the Celts originally didn't speak an I-E language, which makes sense. " I've seen some interesting comparsion of the Basque language and at least on of the American Indian languages. The same sound means the same in both languages, etc.
35
posted on
06/24/2003 3:36:08 PM PDT
by
blam
To: blivet
Shock (( soon )) -- revelations (( designed universe )) ...
awe --- you haven't seen anything - yet !
36
posted on
06/24/2003 3:37:20 PM PDT
by
f.Christian
(( Shock -- revelations (( designed universe )) ... AWE --- you haven't seen anything - yet ))
To: blam
Some Scottish men's Y's are remarkably similar to those of southern England.No surprise there. Their ancestors had good horses. (Or to be more precise, they stole good horses!)
37
posted on
06/24/2003 3:43:02 PM PDT
by
Redcloak
(All work and no FReep makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no FReep make s Jack a dul boy. Allwork an)
To: Question_Assumptions
38
posted on
06/24/2003 3:46:48 PM PDT
by
blam
To: Question_Assumptions
39
posted on
06/24/2003 3:51:04 PM PDT
by
blam
Comment #40 Removed by Moderator
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