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The Origin of Classic Liberalism in the US(vanity)

Posted on 06/21/2003 3:50:48 AM PDT by chichipow

I am reluctantly asking for opinons, because I believe this forum to be filled with some of the most intelligent and well read posters I have conversed with.

I am hoping some will take a minute out and give me some advice on books or literature. I would like to learn more about the roots of classic liberalism, and conservatism. I have purchased several books on different ism's, but am really looking for a history of our political landscape (even going back farther than the classic liberal founding fathers if need be)from beginning to present.

If you have an opinon or some advice, a title of a book, or author, I would appreciate it. Thank you in advance.


TOPICS: Unclassified; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: books; classicliberalism; conservatism; readinglist
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1 posted on 06/21/2003 3:50:49 AM PDT by chichipow
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To: chichipow
Check out John Lock.

http://www.potomac-inc.org/2ndtreat.html

2 posted on 06/21/2003 3:57:37 AM PDT by Pontiac
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To: chichipow
Also try Adam Smith.

http://www.bibliomania.com/2/1/65/112/frameset.html

3 posted on 06/21/2003 5:36:30 AM PDT by Pontiac
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To: chichipow
First and foremost - Friedrich Hayek: The Constitution of Liberty and The Road to Serfdom

Milton Friedman: Capitalism and Freedom

Almost anything by Thomas Sowell

4 posted on 06/21/2003 5:47:48 AM PDT by fnord ( Hyprocisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue)
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To: Pontiac
Thank you, have recently gotten Locke's 2nd Treatise on Government.
5 posted on 06/21/2003 6:04:49 AM PDT by chichipow
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To: chichipow
"I would like to learn more about the roots of classic liberalism, and conservatism. I have purchased several books on different ism's, but am really looking for a history of our political landscape (even going back farther than the classic liberal founding fathers if need be)from beginning to present."


Read the Holy Bible to understand the roots of conservatism and liberalism.
Liberalism is paganism under the guise of political, social, and economic influences of the unjust and cruel; it results in secular humanism, the worship of the created beings of God and attempts to replace God with unjust government of mankind. They are reprobates of the worst kind and even kill the young and old and will eventually bring chaos and destruction to any society they try to control.
Conservatism is the gradual downhill falling away of moral and ethical principles and leads to the delusions of liberalism, though they are better people,more wise and generally better educated than the blind followers of liberalism and definitely more reasonable than vicious, intolerant liberals, these people are tolerant of those who believe in the Lord God; they stand on the Constitution and the bill of rights and are generally patriotic and love America's sovereign nation status.
The bible is the only means of understanding the human soul and is written by the Creator God of mankind and reveals all things to the saved by grace through faith believers.
Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour of all those who believe how he died for our sins and rose the third day for our justification.
6 posted on 06/21/2003 6:23:14 AM PDT by wgeorge2001 ("The truth will set you free.")
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To: chichipow
Anything by "F.A. Hayek" or "Milton Friedman" or "Ludwin von Mises" or "Murray Rothbard".

I recommend:
"Economic Analysis of Property Rights" by Yoram Barzel
"The Renaissance: A Short History" by Paul Johnson
"The Law" by Frederick Bastiat
7 posted on 06/21/2003 7:53:16 AM PDT by lone_conservative_law_student
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To: chichipow
Oops. I forgot to include the author "Max Weber" and "De Soto". Good luck!
8 posted on 06/21/2003 7:54:43 AM PDT by lone_conservative_law_student
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To: wgeorge2001
"Liberalism is paganism .."

Read what he wrote again. He is talking about classic liberalism, which is VERY biblical.

He is talking about the origional definition of the word before The Religious Left (Marxist/Socialists) co-opted it for themselves and re-defined its meaning, to suit themselves. (This they have done with many other words, too, like tolerance, justice, good, evil, hate, love, progressive, gay, etc., etc., ad nauseum).

9 posted on 06/21/2003 7:55:46 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (Marxist DemocRATS, Nader-Greens, and Religious KOOKS = a clear and present danger to our Freedoms.)
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To: chichipow
Hi. I've got a short list:

Aristotle, 'Politics'
John Locke, 'The Second Treatise of Government'
David Hume, 'Enquriries Concerning Human Understanding and Concerning the Principles of Morals'
Montesquieu, 'The Spirit of the Laws'
Cesare Beccaria, 'On Crimes and Punishments'
Frederic Bastiat, 'The Law'
The Federalist
The Anti- Federalist
James Madison, ' The Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787 Which Framed the Constitution of the United States of America'
Alexis de Tocqueville, 'Democracy in America'
Ludwig von Mises, 'Human Action'
Ludwig von Mises, 'Socialism'
Friedrich Hayek, 'The Constitution of Liberty'
Friedrich Hayek, 'The Road to Serfdom'
Friedrich Hayek, 'The Fatal Conceit'
Karl Popper, 'The Open Society and Its Enemies, Vols I & II'

For other works:

Lysander Spooner, 'No Treason' ( Please note, Spooner was an early libertarian, and his works are sometimes claimed by honest anarchists ( who are few and far between, unlike the idiots that claim to be against 'globalization' ) as well.)
Lysander Spooner, 'Trial by Jury'
James Kent, 'Commentaries on American Law'
Thomas M. Cooley, 'The General Principles of Constitutional Law in the United States'
Joseph Story, ' Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States'
St. George Tucker, 'Blackstone's Commentaries: With Notes of Reference, to The Constittion and Laws, of the Federal Government of the United States; and of the Commonwealth of Virginia.'

10 posted on 06/21/2003 8:40:59 AM PDT by Tench_Coxe
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To: Tench_Coxe
Ironic
Classic liberalism= Modern consertivism.
11 posted on 06/22/2003 10:25:01 PM PDT by John Will
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To: chichipow
Modern conservatism was reborn with four events IMHO. In no particular order, the issuance of the first edition of The Conservative Mind by Russell Kirk, The publication of The Road to Serfdom by Hayek, Buckley writing God and Man at Yale and launching his magazine and lastly, the publication of Richard Weaver's Ideas have Consequences.

Broad outlines are given by The Roots of American Order by Russell Kirk and the philisophical background for Old Whig thought (original conservatism or classical liberalism) can be found by reading all you can by and about Edmund Burke, its true father.

When you have the time, go to the General Interest forum here and read the ongoing thread BOOKS! which I recently started for general reading.

12 posted on 06/24/2003 2:46:08 PM PDT by KC Burke
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To: chichipow
Additionaly, I might coment of the words in your vanity title. Classical Liberalism grew here as a weed with the colonists. Many from Puritan background were disenters from the main-line faiths and many in other regions came as people of other faiths pursueing their freedom to practice their religion.

But one thing they had in common, politically they were all Old Whigs. (New Whigs only being created by the rationalism of the French Revolution after our founding). This was so plain to them that the Blue and the Buff of Whiggish colors were adopted by Washington's army and no one thought enough of it to give it much mention.

Keep in mind that many of these Whigs went on to be Federalists and Democrat-Republicans. The American Whig Party of the 19th century was an entirely different, third, animal.

So, classical liberalism was the babies milk of the colonies, it didn't have to be imported, introduced or originated whole, it was the stream in which we swam.

13 posted on 06/24/2003 2:58:18 PM PDT by KC Burke
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To: chichipow; KC Burke
The Acton Institute has a good list of names each linked to more information, though it looks incomplete, and weighted towards the conservative and Christian side of classical liberalism. Liberty Guide also has much information.

One source of classical liberalism was the Christian natural law tradition. Another was the economics of Smith and the physiocrats. Classical republicanism was another root. Republicanism's virtue-based vision of politics would have a variety of progeny, liberal and anti-liberal, egalitarian and elitist, conservative and radical.

"Classical liberalism" runs the gamut from moderate Whiggery and the Founding Fathers to radical libertarian utopianism and anarchism, so, like "libertarian" today, it may not be the most precise term.

In any case, there's no shortage of material about your question on the Internet. So happy hunting.

14 posted on 06/24/2003 4:49:31 PM PDT by x
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To: x
Thanks to all that replied.

Believe it or not I did try 'classic liberalism' on google and got mostly leftist definitions that didn't span through history very well at all.

Again, thanks for the opinions, titles and links. I really appreciate it.
15 posted on 06/24/2003 7:16:33 PM PDT by chichipow
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To: chichipow; x
Another stategy I might suggest is to occasionaly watch for, or even search for, those posters you really see that can offer the insight you are seeking. As an example, "x" above, gives such enlightened commentary, in my opinion -- related to the items that interest me, that I always read his comments. I find myself saying, "now who was that masked man", because he unfailingly hits the nail on the head with one to four paragraphs that are like a master's class summary that would take me a month to write.

I also enjoy posters that are educated in fields that are outside of my core interests as it makes me expand my reading and thought. Cornelis, askel5 (dearly departed), betty boop, fchristian, etc. are all posters who get my careful read even when some of what they post is much too loaded with references to items outside my reading. Perhaps it was Cornelis who got me subscribing to Modern Age quarterly, a true gem.

I have also found an appreciation for some of those I truely disagree with in debate. It is a great fellowship of the mind on this site.

16 posted on 06/24/2003 8:51:46 PM PDT by KC Burke
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To: chichipow; KC Burke
Here's a good long essay about the origins of classical liberalism.

It looks like it had very diverse roots, both Christian and secularist, moral-political and economic, natural law and utilitarian. The diversity doesn't imply unbridgeable contradictions: when those who are critical of government power for moral reasons try to explain what government should and shouldn't do, it's natural that they would turn to economists who argued that government couldn't effectively achieve what socialists wanted it to do.

So there's not a rigid either or opposition between Christian and moral natural law libertarians and secular hedonistic libertarians, but it does look like Montesquieu and the Founding Fathers left the door open to more government than later laissez-faire economists did. At least the idea of safeguarding freedom by balancing branches of government against each other does seem to imply greater pessimism about human nature and the possibility of getting rid of government than some later libertarians had.

Some of the sites I found want to establish a straight path from Locke and Jefferson to Ludwig von Mises and modern day libertarians. There may be something to be said for that, but Locke and Jefferson have left behind more heirs than just the Libertarian Party or the Mises Institute. I suspect that by the standards of 1500 or 1600 we are all libertarians -- and all egalitarians -- today. Past libertarians and past egalitarians may not have gone the whole route that those terms imply in our day.

17 posted on 06/25/2003 8:10:00 PM PDT by x
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To: Matchett-PI
Read what he wrote again. He is talking about classic liberalism, which is VERY biblical.


There is no such thing as classic liberalism except in the minds of those who practice blind pagan liberalism.
18 posted on 06/28/2003 5:34:03 AM PDT by wgeorge2001 ("The truth will set you free.")
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To: wgeorge2001
"There is no such thing as classic liberalism except in the minds of those who practice blind pagan liberalism."

Do you walk to work or carry your lunch?

19 posted on 06/28/2003 6:56:41 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (Marxist DemocRATS, Nader-Greens, and Religious KOOKS = a clear and present danger to our Freedoms.)
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To: chichipow
Port Huron Statement of the Students for a Democratic Society, 1962

http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/huron.html

Courtesy Office of Sen. Tom Hayden.

THE PORT HURON STATEMENT OF THE STUDENTS FOR A DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Introductory Note: This document represents the results of several months of writing and discussion among the membership, a draft paper, and revision by the Students for a Democratic Society national convention meeting in \cf2 Port Huron\cf0 , Michigan, June 11-15, 1962. It is represented as a document with which SDS officially identifies, but also as a living document open to change with our times and experiences. It is a beginning: in our own debate and education, in our dialogue with society.

published and distributed by Students for a Democratic Society 112 East 19 Street New York 3, New York GRamercy 3-2181

INTRODUCTION: AGENDA FOR A GENERATION

We are people of this generation, bred in at least modest comfort, housed now in universities, looking uncomfortably to the world we inherit.

When we were kids the United States was the wealthiest and strongest country in the world: the only one with the atom bomb, the least scarred by modern war, an initiator of the United Nations that we thought would distribute Western influence throughout the world. Freedom and equality for each individual, government of, by, and for the people -- these American values we found good, principles by which we could live as men. Many of us began maturing in complacency.

As we grew, however, our comfort was penetrated by events too troubling to dismiss. First, the permeating and victimizing fact of human degradation, symbolized by the Southern struggle against racial bigotry, compelled most of us from silence to activism. Second, the enclosing fact of the Cold War, symbolized by the presence of the Bomb, brought awareness that we ourselves, and our friends, and millions of abstract "others" we knew more directly because of our common peril, might die at any time. We might deliberately ignore, or avoid, or fail to feel all other human problems, but not these two, for these were too immediate and crushing in their impact, too challenging in the demand that we as individuals take the responsibility for encounter and resolution.

While these and other problems either directly oppressed us or rankled our consciences and became our own subjective concerns, we began to see complicated and disturbing paradoxes in our surrounding America. The declaration "all men are created equal . . . rang hollow before the facts of Negro life in the South and the big cities of the North. The proclaimed peaceful intentions of the United States contradicted its economic and military investments in the Cold War status quo.

We witnessed, and continue to witness, other paradoxes. With nuclear energy whole cities can easily be powered, yet the dominant nationstates seem more likely to unleash destruction greater than that incurred in all wars of human history. Although our own technology is destroying old and creating new forms of social organization, men still tolerate meaningless work and idleness. While two-thirds of mankind suffers undernourishment, our own upper classes revel amidst superfluous abundance. Although world population is expected to double in forty years, the nations still tolerate anarchy as a major principle of international conduct and uncontrolled exploitation governs the sapping of the earth's physical resources. Although mankind desperately needs revolutionary leadership, America rests in national stalemate, its goals ambiguous and tradition-bound instead of informed and clear, its democratic system apathetic and manipulated rather than "of, by, and for the people."

Not only did tarnish appear on our image of American virtue, not only did disillusion occur when the hypocrisy of American ideals was discovered, but we began to sense that what we had originally seen as the American Golden Age was actually the decline of an era. The worldwide outbreak of revolution against colonialism and imperialism, the entrenchment of totalitarian states, the menace of war, overpopulation, international disorder, supertechnology -- these trends were testing the tenacity of our own commitment to democracy and freedom and our abilities to visualize their application to a world in upheaval.

Our work is guided by the sense that we may be the last generation in the experiment with living. But we are a minority -- the vast majority of our people regard the temporary equilibriums of our society and world as eternally-functional parts. In this is perhaps the outstanding paradox: we ourselves are imbued with urgency, yet the message of our society is that there is no viable alternative to the present. Beneath the reassuring tones of the politicians, beneath the common opinion that America will "muddle through", beneath the stagnation of those who have closed their minds to the future, is the pervading feeling that there simply are no alternatives, that our times have witnessed the exhaustion not only of Utopias, but of any new departures as well. Feeling the press of complexity upon the emptiness of life, people are fearful of the thought that at any moment things might thrust out of control. They fear change itself, since change might smash whatever invisible framework seems to hold back chaos for them now. For most Americans, all crusades are suspect, threatening. The fact that each individual sees apathy in his fellows perpetuates the common reluctance to organize for change. The dominant institutions are complex enough to blunt the minds of their potential critics, and entrenched enough to swiftly dissipate or entirely repel the energies of protest and reform, thus limiting human expectancies. Then, too, we are a materially improved society, and by our own improvements we seem to have weakened the case for further change.

Some would have us believe that Americans feel contentment amidst prosperity -- but might it not better be called a glaze above deeplyfelt anxieties about their role in the new world? And if these anxieties produce a developed indifference to human affairs, do they not as well produce a yearning to believe there is an alternative to the present, that something can be done to change circumstances in the school, the workplaces, the bureaucracies, the government? It is to this latter yearning, at once the spark and engine of change, that we direct our present appeal. The search for truly democratic alternatives to the present, and a commitment to social experimentation with them, is a worthy and fulfilling human enterprise, one which moves us and, we hope, others today. On such a basis do we offer this document of our convictions and analysis: as an effort in understanding and changing the conditions of humanity in the late twentieth century, an effort rooted in the ancient, still unfulfilled conception of man attaining determining influence over his circumstances of life.

Values

Making values explicit -- an initial task in establishing alternatives -

* is an activity that has been devalued and corrupted. The conventional moral terms of the age, the politician moralities -- "free world", "people's democracies" -- reflect realities poorly, if at all, and seem to function more as ruling myths than as descriptive principles. But neither has our experience in the universities brought as moral enlightenment. Our professors and administrators sacrifice controversy to public relations; their curriculums change more slowly than the living events of the world; their skills and silence are purchased by investors in the arms race; passion is called unscholastic. The questions we might want raised -- what is really important? can we live in a different and better way? if we wanted to change society, how would we do it? -- are not thought to be questions of a "fruitful, empirical nature", and thus are brushed aside.

Unlike youth in other countries we are used to moral leadership being exercised and moral dimensions being clarified by our elders. But today, for us, not even the liberal and socialist preachments of the past seem adequate to the forms of the present. Consider the old slogans; Capitalism Cannot Reform Itself, United Front Against Fascism, General Strike, All Out on May Day. Or, more recently, No Cooperation with Commies and Fellow Travellers, Ideologies Are Exhausted, Bipartisanship, No Utopias. These are incomplete, and there are few new prophets. It has been said that our liberal and socialist predecessors were plagued by vision without program, while our own generation is plagued by program without vision. All around us there is astute grasp of method, technique -- the committee, the ad hoc group, the lobbyist, that hard and soft sell, the make, the projected image -- but, if pressed critically, such expertise is incompetent to explain its implicit ideals. It is highly fashionable to identify oneself by old categories, or by naming a respected political figure, or by explaining "how we would vote" on various issues.

Theoretic chaos has replaced the idealistic thinking of old -- and, unable to reconstitute theoretic order, men have condemned idealism itself. Doubt has replaced hopefulness -- and men act out a defeatism that is labeled realistic. The decline of utopia and hope is in fact one of the defining features of social life today. The reasons are various: the dreams of the older left were perverted by Stalinism and never recreated; the congressional stalemate makes men narrow their view of the possible; the specialization of human activity leaves little room for sweeping thought; the horrors of the twentieth century, symbolized in the gas-ovens and concentration camps and atom bombs, have blasted hopefulness. To be idealistic is to be considered apocalyptic, deluded. To have no serious aspirations, on the contrary, is to be "toughminded".

In suggesting social goals and values, therefore, we are aware of entering a sphere of some disrepute. Perhaps matured by the past, we have no sure formulas, no closed theories -- but that does not mean values are beyond discussion and tentative determination. A first task of any social movement is to convenience people that the search for orienting theories and the creation of human values is complex but worthwhile. We are aware that to avoid platitudes we must analyze the concrete conditions of social order. But to direct such an analysis we must use the guideposts of basic principles. Our own social values involve conceptions of human beings, human relationships, and social systems.

We regard men as infinitely precious and possessed of unfulfilled capacities for reason, freedom, and love. In affirming these principles we are aware of countering perhaps the dominant conceptions of man in the twentieth century: that he is a thing to be manipulated, and that he is inherently incapable of directing his own affairs. We oppose the depersonalization that reduces human beings to the status of things -- if anything, the brutalities of the twentieth century teach that means and ends are intimately related, that vague appeals to "posterity" cannot justify the mutilations of the present. We oppose, too, the doctrine of human incompetence because it rests essentially on the modern fact that men have been "competently" manipulated into incompetence -- we see little reason why men cannot meet with increasing skill the complexities and responsibilities of their situation, if society is organized not for minority, but for majority, participation in decision-making.

Men have unrealized potential for self-cultivation, self-direction, self-understanding, and creativity. It is this potential that we regard as crucial and to which we appeal, not to the human potentiality for violence, unreason, and submission to authority. The goal of man and society should be human independence: a concern not with image of popularity but with finding a meaning in life that is personally authentic: a quality of mind not compulsively driven by a sense of powerlessness, nor one which unthinkingly adopts status values, nor one which represses all threats to its habits, but one which has full, spontaneous access to present and past experiences, one which easily unites the fragmented parts of personal history, one which openly faces problems which are troubling and unresolved: one with an intuitive awareness of possibilities, an active sense of curiosity, an ability and willingness to learn.

This kind of independence does not mean egoistic individualism -- the object is not to have one's way so much as it is to have a way that is one's own. Nor do we deify man -- we merely have faith in his potential.

Human relationships should involve fraternity and honesty. Human interdependence is contemporary fact; human brotherhood must be willed however, as a condition of future survival and as the most appropriate form of social relations. Personal links between man and man are needed, especially to go beyond the partial and fragmentary bonds of function that bind men only as worker to worker, employer to employee, teacher to student, American to Russian.

Loneliness, estrangement, isolation describe the vast distance between man and man today. These dominant tendencies cannot be overcome by better personnel management, nor by improved gadgets, but only when a love of man overcomes the idolatrous worship of things by man.

As the individualism we affirm is not egoism, the selflessness we affirm is not self-elimination. On the contrary, we believe in generosity of a kind that imprints one's unique individual qualities in the relation to other men, and to all human activity. Further, to dislike isolation is not to favor the abolition of privacy; the latter differs from isolation in that it occurs or is abolished according to individual will. Finally, we would replace power and personal uniqueness rooted in possession, privilege, or circumstance by power and uniqueness rooted in love, reflectiveness, reason, and creativity.

As a social system we seek the establishment of a democracy of individual participation, governed by two central aims: that the individual share in those social decisions determining the quality and direction of his life; that society be organized to encourage independence in men and provide the media for their common participation.

In a participatory democracy, the political life would be based in several root principles:

* that decision-making of basic social consequence be carried on by public groupings;
* that politics be seen positively, as the art of collectively creating an acceptable pattern of social relations;
* that politics has the function of bringing people out of isolation and into community, thus being a necessary, though not sufficient, means of finding meaning in personal life;
* that the political order should serve to clarify problems in a way instrumental to their solution; it should provide outlets for the expression of personal grievance and aspiration; opposing views should be organized so as to illuminate choices and facilities the attainment of goals; channels should be commonly available to related men to knowledge and to power so that private problems -- from bad recreation facilities to personal alienation -- are formulated as general issues.

The economic sphere would have as its basis the principles:

* that work should involve incentives worthier than money or survival. It should be educative, not stultifying; creative, not mechanical; selfdirect, not manipulated, encouraging independence; a respect for others, a sense of dignity and a willingness to accept social responsibility, since it is this experience that has crucial influence on habits, perceptions and individual ethics;
* that the economic experience is so personally decisive that the individual must share in its full determination;
* that the economy itself is of such social importance that its major resources and means of production should be open to democratic participation and subject to democratic social regulation.

Like the political and economic ones, major social institutions -- cultural, education, rehabilitative, and others -- should be generally organized with the well-being and dignity of man as the essential measure of success.

In social change or interchange, we find violence to be abhorrent because it requires generally the transformation of the target, be it a human being or a community of people, into a depersonalized object of hate. It is imperative that the means of violence be abolished and the institutions -- local, national, international -- that encourage nonviolence as a condition of conflict be developed.

These are our central values, in skeletal form. It remains vital to understand their denial or attainment in the context of the modern world.
20 posted on 06/28/2003 7:01:58 AM PDT by Helms
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