Upper-Middle-Class Dropouts

Forbes ^ | 6/23/03 | Rich Karlgaard

[SauronOfMordor]

So I don't think you're much safer if you own your own independant software business as that's becoming a commodity market as well.

You're not. That's what I'm doing, and what happens is a business will cut back on contracting and on buying software before they will lay people off

[headsonpikes]

You're right about historical populist's pandering.

OTOH, a charismatic, Perot-type(contra Huey Long-type) young politician might be able to leapfrog the vested interests to the Presidency.

Now that the Constitution is tattered, the Republic is susceptible to all kinds of procedural mischief, engendered by faction.

Perhaps only a populist can reach over the corrupted institutions to the People.

[GYPSY286]

Regardless of what you do for a living, your life-style is dictated and controlled by the company you work for. Your employer decides WHEN/HOW much time you will spend at your job or with your family. Your employer determines what size house you can afford, what size car you can drive, where you can afford to take your family on vacation and how long that vacation will be. Many people LOVE their jobs and LOVE what they do but if you ask them if they would do that job for free, most will say no. I didn't come up with this analogy on my own - it was brought to my attention by a successful millionaire+ who owns his own business, one where HE is in control. If you want to be successful and rich, you should get advice from someone who is successful and rich. I've just started my own business too and it's moving so fast, I'll be able to replace my current salary within 5 months and retire with residual income within 5 years. If you are interested in learning more how you can too, freep-mail me.

[SUSSA]

You may be right.

[Zevonismymuse]

Thank you and everyone else who commented on my family situation. You all made very valid points which we have considered. As some of you reccomended, I think my husband should start his own PLC company. Unfortunately, my husband has been a company man his entire life and is scared to go it alone. He installs and repairs PLCs, he doesn't run an office or write memmos.

I wish he would have been fired with the other 6 guys who got the boot. Then he would not have had a choice. As it stands right now he thinks we need the medical insurance and other benefits he is keeping in his new demoted position.

The good news is I think he will be fired as soon as they glean the last bit of information from him and when the new kid thinks he is fully trained. I really look forward to the day. I hate the way my husband has been treated and I can't wait until they see what an asset he was to the company.

There is some talk from the 6 guys who were actually fired about an age discrimination suit, but before they were given their severance pay they were required to sign something saying they would not sue. I told my husband when they fire him not to sign the paper. I will give up whatever they offer him to leave quietly just so I can extract a pound of flesh from those greasy cowards.

[Kozak]

Maybe it's just me but spending $45,000 on a six-week vacation is a bit risky, even with nearly $1 million in paper wealth.

Especially when most of your "wealth" is actually the roof over your head. Shouldn't be counted as an asset.

[american spirit]

IMO after the Clinton years and the assorted baggage (treason, Waco, impeachment, Hillarycare, etc.) as well as the these Bush years (open borders, Social Security payments to illegals, largest increase in history for Dept. of Education, Patriot Act, Halliburton, increased fed'l spending) all under the guise of "conservatism" isn't time to realize our choices are only Socialist Party A or B and to agressively seek other choices?

[technochick99]

I have to believe there is someone getting ready to pounce on this as it gets worse.

I agree.

[FreedomCalls]

"... he was raising hell about a job he was on where he was the only carpenter who spoke English. He said the contractor hires illegals and pays them cash; he pays no SS tax and no unemployment tax on them. This guy told me he wouldn’t be on the job except the contractor brought him in to redo some cabinetwork the illegals messed up.

Your friend is part of the problem. He is tolerating the contractor's illegal business practices. Is his finger broken? Can he not telephone the local INS office and report this guy? The INS will come in and arrest the illegals and the contractor too with just one little telephone call. Do the right thing. Make the call.

[Alberta's Child]

Unfortunately, my husband has been a company man his entire life and is scared to go it alone. He installs and repairs PLCs, he doesn't run an office or write memmos.

In addition to my suggestion that he might want to start a consulting firm of his own, I'd also strongly suggest that he not do it alone. He should have a partner (maybe you?) who can take care of paperwork while he goes out and does what he does best.

[CaptainK]

If they had been more responsible their daughter would still be in private school. Spending $45,00 on a vacation, with the salary he was making, was unbelievably reckless. And now the bill has come due, at his daughter's expense.

[oceanview]

they should consult an employment attorney before signing any of those "exit papers".

[oceanview]

offshoring is not a fad, US companies are re-doubling their investments to make it work.

[ocean]

At times we need to clear our thinking and adjust our perspective on what truly adds value to life.

Seek opportunities instead of jobs. There is always a niche that needs to be filled. Some not so glamorous and others downright silly but still VERY profitable.

[tortoise]

offshoring is not a fad, US companies are re-doubling their investments to make it work.

So YOU say, but then how much do you really know? I'm one of the people who makes these decisions, and I have a lot of experience with offshoring, as do my compadres. In a word, it is useless for any but the most brain-dead work. Yes, we tried it because in theory it made good commercial sense. In practice, the overhead is difficult to justify for anything but loss leaders, and all the development that matters will stay in the US for the foreseeable future. Development in cheaper parts of the US is definitely price/brain competitive with anywhere else on the globe in the final picture.

The "investments" are not entirely what they appear. If you aren't a drone and offer real value on the engineering side, your job is safe for the foreseeable future. The bottom feeders in the US engineering market will likely be pushed out in many areas though. Once you move your engineering away from expensive places like Silicon Valley (or California in general), Americans give very cost effective bang for the buck. In the final tally, exporting to better States has proven to the be the best route. Even though we have assets and facilities all over the world, all our engineering is done in places like Florida, Texas, and Nevada, and it is actively being MOVED to these places. That is what the future is going to look like. Commie States are going to die, and the better ones of the bunch will thrive because they still comprehend what a reasonable business environment is. We'll invest in America, but America has to give us something to invest IN.

[oceanview]

So am I. I am not just blowing smoke here with uninformed opinion. I am posting based on what I see happening at work every day.

Its not just "bottom feeder" jobs.

In fact, here is what I see: Yes, the first waves of offshored projects may well have been "bottom feed"; maintenance of legacy systems, etc. And many of those did not demonstrate cost efficiencies, mostly because the company likely still retained the employees who were maintaining those legacy systems anyway.

So now, the approach has shifted: all new projects go offshore, don't staff in the US for them. Don't burden the offshoring process with having to ride the learning curve of transferring an existing system to them. Let them start with a clean sheet of paper, own a new program from start to finish. The US based staffing contribution to the effort comes from system engineering and testing; write the requirements for the offshore developers and test the product they produce. For now at least, once the offshore folks get more experience, they will do that work also.

Article after article is posted here about what is happening, don't tell us jobs are being exported from California to Florida! All these articles about the phenonmenal growth in the Indian IT shops, are you claiming they are all lies? And that's just the start, other areas are moving to: HR, accounting, medical techs, anything that can be done by a person at a desk with a computer is being offshored.

This process is just beginning, alot of people think its just a sudden surge in a fad that will pass. It's not.

[Polybius]

"Millions of American families are just like the Smiths. Politicians, take heed. The Smiths will decide the election of 2004."

What can any politician do for such a guy? Pass a law mandating the return of the Clinton Bubble?

[oceanview]

how about eliminating the H1B visa program. How about that?

[Polybius]

What can any politician do for such a guy? Pass a law mandating the return of the Clinton Bubble?

how about eliminating the H1B visa program. How about that?

That will make his $92,000 job more secure but it won't change the fact that the Clinton Bubble made these people think that buying $420,000 cracker boxes as entry level homes and relying on their own employer's vastly over-inflated stock valuations was the road to future financial security.

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

The cost of living in the Bay area is high, and the salaries are also high; they tend to go hand-in-hand throughout the nation.
The fictitious Smiths have been more fortunate than most in high-tech and I think they understand now that the stock market does not just go up.
What is difficult for people like the Smiths to understand is how a labor shortage in high-tech, reversed so quickly. And, how our current government policies continue as though there still is a labor shortage, when there is not.
These policies are what need to be exposed and changed.