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To: Blood of Tyrants
"Confused yet? "

Well, that's the way I understood it. But then it seems like the simple train station math ought to work.

If you have the following:


32 posted on 06/19/2003 8:54:29 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: DannyTN
The distance from the Bigbang to the earth times the speed of the earth

Ah, but there is no "distance to the Big Bang" It was everywhere, in a certain sense. Sort of like the light being everywhere as reported in Genesis. The light (or energy) of the big bang filled the entire universe as it then existed. Took a while for the universe to "cool" enough that matter could even exist. At the energy density of the early universe, only energy could exist. Your calculation are for a Newtonian universe not one where special, not to mention general, relativity exists, such as the one we live in. Even when dealing with solid objects, velocities don't add or subtract vectorially as the speeds approach that of light. If your math were correct, and we were moving away from some object at say 1/2 c, we would measure the speed of the light from that object to be 1/2 c, but we don't, we measure it to be c. (It will be rather redshifted to a lower frequency however)

36 posted on 06/19/2003 10:34:16 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: DannyTN

Huh?...

46 posted on 06/20/2003 5:59:21 AM PDT by Hatteras (The Thundering Herd Of Turtles ROCK!)
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To: DannyTN
When dealing with the speed of planets and galaxies relative to each other, simple Newtonian math works just fine.

Also, I agree that they are using some fuzzy math here. Supposedly the relative speeds of the galaxies are MUCH lower than c. If the galaxy they are talking about is 12 billion light years away, and the universe is 13 billion years old, then at some point nearly every object in the universe was traveling at or near the speed of light.

Also, using their argument that the light from the mentioned galaxy has traveled 12 billion years to get here, the simple fact that you can see it at all suggest that the relative speed of the galaxy 12 billion years ago was well within the Netwtonian physics range. Otherwise, the Doppler shift would have made the frequency of the light coming from the galaxy so low that it simply could not be seen.

Using those two points of logic assume the earth and the galaxy are relatively the same distance from the center of the "big bang" (6 billion light years) and that their speed is relatively low. That means that they traveled 6 billion light years each within the span of 1 billion years and thus violated the theory of relativity which states that no object can achieve the speed of light except light itself.
49 posted on 06/20/2003 6:58:59 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: DannyTN
E<-----------B

Here's my take: I'm sure you've heard the oft-repeated analogy between the two-dimensional surface of an expanding balloon and the expanding three-dimensional space we live in.

Imagine this two-dimensional surface when it's no larger than the surface of a proton, say (or even infinitesimally small, if you wish).

There's a Big Bang. The surface begins to expand rapidly.

Fast forward 13 billion years: Some critters have evolved on the surface of the now gigantic balloon, and they want to know "where" the Big Bang happened relative to their position on the balloon. Answer: The Big Bang happened everywhere, at every point in space, on that infinitesimally small surface. It makes no sense to talk about how far away you are from that point now.

70 posted on 06/20/2003 11:32:38 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: DannyTN
B - Location of the Big Bang

The Big Bang was everywhere. We're still stuck in it. Any direction we look, we're looking back toward it.

92 posted on 06/20/2003 4:14:30 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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