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To: Yo-Yo
Your theory is the most ridiculous one ...

You obviously aren't familiar with previous accidents involving the B747 series of aircraft AND cargo bay doors ...

That makes you highly uninformed and ignorant on this topic.

Your simplistic 'scenario' overlooks several IMPORTANT factors as well, such as severed radio and power cables -

- AGAIN, you appear TOTALLY unawares of previous B747 accidents INCLUDING one very well documented csae involving UAL Flt 811 WHICH incidently made it back damaged BUT with a large, gaping hole in the fuselage where a number of people were sucked out AS WAS luggage into engs 3 and 4 (FODDING them).

Come back SOMETIME in the future after you're better informed as to the facts on previous B747 'events' ... I don't make it a habit of discussing highly technical issues that entail a lot of detail involving complicated systems with the uninformed or idiots ...

26 posted on 06/25/2003 1:18:07 PM PDT by _Jim
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27 posted on 06/25/2003 7:05:54 PM PDT by firewalk
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To: _Jim
Come back SOMETIME in the future after you're better informed as to the facts on previous B747 'events' ... I don't make it a habit of discussing highly technical issues that entail a lot of detail involving complicated systems with the uninformed or idiots ...

Jim, Let's not resort to name calling. I am fully aware of the early history of 747 cargo doors coming unlatched in mid flight as the cargo bay pressurized.

My point remains, that you conveniently refused to address, is that you quoted an eyewitness who watched "landing lights" for between 2 and 5 minutes, and later theorized that instead of lights they were burning engines. I stated that it is nearly impossible for the aircrew to have two engines on fire for that length of time and not have radioed an in flight emergency.

I never addressed your theory of the cargo bay door fodding the engines, but since you bring it up... Perhaps you are aware that they found TWA800's cargo bay door. Here is the exact quote from the FAA final report on page 116 (page 134 of the PDF file):

1.16.4.4 Metallurgical Examination of the Forward Cargo Door

The Safety Board also considered the possibility that the forward cargo door (the forward edge of which is located several feet aft of STA 520 on the lower right side of the fuselage) separated from the accident airplane in flight and that this separation initiated the breakup sequence. The Board examined the pieces of the forward cargo door, which were recovered from the yellow zone. All eight of the latching cams at the bottom of the door were recovered attached to pieces of the lower end of the door and were in the latched position. Additionally, the latching cams and pieces of the cargo door remained attached to the pins along the lower door sill. The hinge at the top of the door was broken into several pieces, but the hinge pin still held the various pieces of the hinge together. There was no evidence to suggest that this hinge separated. The forward cargo door exhibited severe crushing deformation and fragmentation, very similar to damage observed on the adjacent fuselage structure.

Your simplistic 'scenario' overlooks several IMPORTANT factors as well, such as severed radio and power cables -

Perhaps you are also aware that the cockpit voice recorder (CVR for really hip technical people like you) was recovered, and there were no "OH MY GOD THE CARGO BAY DOOR BLEW OFF" or "OH MY GOD, ENGINES 3 AND 4 ARE ON FIRE" sounds recovered from it. You are also aware that the time of power loss and time of explosion were coincident, so there is still that sticky 2 to 5 minutes of "landing lights are burning engines" to deal with.

Am I better informed yet?

28 posted on 06/26/2003 11:43:41 AM PDT by Yo-Yo
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To: _Jim
- AGAIN, you appear TOTALLY unawares of previous B747 accidents INCLUDING one very well documented csae involving UAL Flt 811 WHICH incidently made it back damaged BUT with a large, gaping hole in the fuselage where a number of people were sucked out AS WAS luggage into engs 3 and 4 (FODDING them).

Whoops! One additional nugget from the FAA final report:

1.12.4 Engines

The four engines were found in the green zone separated from the wings. The No. 1 engine had crushing damage along the bottom of the nacelle and the low-pressure compressor (LPC), high-pressure compressor (HPC), and diffuser cases; the No. 2 engine had crushing damage along the right side of the nacelle and the LPC, HPC, and diffuser cases; the No. 3 engine inlet and fan blades were crushed rearward, and the LPC and HPC cases had crushing damage from the front and along the bottom; and the No. 4 engine inlet was crushed rearward, the LPC and HPC cases were crushed axially from the front and inward from the right side, and the diffuser case was crushed along the right side. All of the fan cases and cowls were separated from their respective engines. All engine thrust reversers were also separated from their respective engines; however, examination of the recovered thrust reverser actuators showed that the drive mechanisms were at the head end of the jackscrew, consistent with a thrust reverser stowed position at the time of impact.

The Safety Board's disassembly and examination of the four engines revealed LPC damage consistent with a minimal amount of low-pressure rotor rotation (if any) at the time of impact and HPC damage consistent with some high-pressure rotor rotation at the time of impact. No evidence of uncontainment, case rupture, fire, penetration of an object from outside into the engine, or preimpact damage was found in any of the engines.

Darn, no forward cargo door latch damage, and no engine FOD! Looks like your theory is 0 for 2. So sorry.


29 posted on 06/26/2003 4:49:39 PM PDT by Yo-Yo
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