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To: hocndoc
...why do rights change at birth, rather than at 20 weeks or 15 weeks, or 7?

Birth is the most significant event in the human experience. It involves the transition from total dependence upon and existence within the mother to the adapting to a new environment. Of course rights would change here. Rights change at many different points in our experience. Up to age 18, parents are legally responsible for the actions of their children. In most states in this country, you don't have the right to drive a car until age 16; you can't enter into a legal contract until age 18 and you can't drink alcohol until age 21 (it IS still legal for a pregnant woman to drink alcohol and thereby negatively impact her pregnancy). It seems logical that you would want to pass laws forbidding that as well as other detrimental actions like smoking during pregnancy.

Again, since we know that over 1000 people a day die prematurely due to smoking related illnesses, why not make that illegal? And since we know that thousands die unnecessarily due to automobile accidents, why not require more mass transit? The more freedom taken from individuals the more lives we save.

The reason that there will always be opposition to your approach is because you are not just for "life" you are for "life in accordance with your particular beliefs". You seem to believe that life is totally determined by physical human conception and development. But, everyone does not share that belief. Some believe that life is inevitable, eternal, spiritual and beyond temporary human actions. What is important is the freedom to figure out what that really means. In other words, your religious interpretation of what life really is, when and how it begins, is different than others. Why should your religious belief determine reproductive decisions for another's family? Would you let someone else do that for your family?

525 posted on 06/23/2003 11:13:22 AM PDT by Semper
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To: Semper
I have been all over the place on the abortion issue moving from the its a woman's body argument when I was much younger to the Life is life is life postition I hold now.

My views evolved as I have studied life. I read, discussed and watched my own child grow and finally arrived at my conclusions through logic.

Very simple really if you think about it long enough.

Let us remove all religious beliefs and liberal ranting about women's rights and you can easily strip it down to logic.

Women produce "A" for reproduction and Men produce "B" for the same purpose! Mix the two together in the proper enviroment and you get "C" life.

Any purposeful meddling with that life, after A and B are mixed, to stop the process from proceeding is in essence killing life!

And if you are true to yourself, there is no argument in the world to deny the fact that any form of killing a fetus is in fact ending life. For to leave a fetus to its purpose will eventually allow it to turn into a baby, unless disease or injury intervenes.

527 posted on 06/23/2003 11:34:16 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (French: old Europe word meaning surrender)
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To: Semper
""Why should your religious belief determine reproductive decisions for another's family? ""

I've never used religion in my discussion of the right to life, why do you bring it up?

Scientifically, the individual life of every human begins at fertilization, or at cell activation in the case of cloned humans - if that's possible.

I am concerned about human rights, whether it's in the case of women in Saudi Arabia, child abuse, clone and kill technology or abortion.

Discriminating between who is a citizen, who may drink or who may drive a car does not concern me as much as descriminating as to who has the right to live free of physical threat by other humans and who does not. Slavery, child abuse, domestic violence, murder and abortion and clone-and-kill does concern me because life and liberty are at stake.
570 posted on 06/23/2003 4:07:41 PM PDT by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US)
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To: Semper
Why should your religious belief determine reproductive decisions for another's family?

The argument that pro-lifers are imposing their religious beliefs on others is a stupid, hollow sham.

Many people who are opposed to abortion belong to religious groups that also have believers who think abortion is okay. What can be learned from that fact?

Belonging to a particular religion is not the determining factor in one's beliefs regarding abortion.

Will you allow me to be opposed to the murder of a six year old child?

Will you allow me to be opposed to the murder of all the children in the Federal Building in Oklahoma City?

Will you allow me to be opposed to the murder of Polly Klass?

Or will you say I am imposing my religious beliefs on you?

It's a topsy-turvy world in which people can't defend life, just because their religion happens to defend life.

579 posted on 06/23/2003 5:09:22 PM PDT by syriacus (Why DO liberals keep describing one other as THOUGHTFUL individuals?)
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