When Is Human Life A Human Being?

http://www.freebritannia.co.uk ^ | 6/16/2003 | Marvin Galloway

[MHGinTN]

In a recent article for First Things, Maureen L. Condic, PhD, Assistant professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy at the University of Utah, presents a convincing argument for meaning of the death protocol (used when organ harvesting is anticipated) to also be used when contemplating prenatal life. She has stated accurately that, “… the loss of integrated bodily function, not the loss of higher mental ability, is the defining legal characteristic of death.”

...

To paraphrase Dr. Condic’s assertion: to be alive as an ORGANISM, the organism is functioning as an integrated whole, rather than life being defined solely from an organ, a form within the organism. …

In order to accurately apply the meaning of the death protocol offered in Dr. Condic’s article, we will have to show how an embryo is more than a mere collection of cells. We will have to show how the embryo is in fact a functioning, integrated whole human organism. If the embryo can be defined on this basis, the definition of an alive, individual human being would fit, and the human being should be protected from exploitation and euthanasia.

What is the focus of the transition from embryo age to fetal age are the organs of the fetus. It is generally held that the organs are all in place when the individual life is redefined as a fetus. The gestational process during the fetal age is a process of the already constructed organs growing larger and more functional for survival. But during the fetal age, the not yet fully functional organs are not the sole sustainer of the individual life. The placenta is still drawing nourishment from the woman’s body and protecting the individual from being rejected as foreign tissue. If we are to apply the notion of a functioning integrated whole to define individual aliveness, the organs necessary for survival must all be included. Since the primitive brain stem and other organs such as primitive lungs, to be relied upon at a later age in the individual’s lifetime, are not yet fully functional, some other organ will have to be responsible for the functioning whole.

[MHGinTN]

You're so much fun, XBob, bless your heart. When the first cell of the conceptus divides it is evidence of at least one soul present. That a second soul may evidence a few divisions of cells later doesn't negate the fact of the first soul being there.

Did you mean to enquire about spirit instead of soul, because even you can see that if two babies exit the womb there had to be at least two souls in the womb, even if one of the souls didn't arrive on the scene until the sixth or twentieth cell division. Did you know that science can even tell which one of the two individuals arrived first in the womb?

[XBob]

I told you my 'beliefs'. There is so much disagreement, I don't think there should be a law punishing people, unless they have a religious law punishing their god.

[XBob]

58 - "Maybe a better question for you is what happens to the souls of all the murdered innocents?"

Better ask someone who believes people have souls.

[XBob]

42 - Better read your own post Nix 2 #42 - "PROVEN female before 7 weeks. Now how do you suspect anyone would know that and still claim there is no human life there?"

Who is right? You or the Bible?

[Tailgunner Joe]

So you don't think viable fetuses should be aborted, but you still think there should be no penalty for any abortion, anywhere, any time, by any procedure.

Should there be penalties for killing babies up to 6 weeks after birth? What's the difference between them and unborn "viable" fetuses?

They're just as helpless and innocent, but some people don't "believe" they deserve life either. Fact is, it doesn't matter what you "believe".

[XBob]

61 - "Did you know that science can even tell which one of the two individuals arrived first in the womb?"

Perhaps with fraternal twins, but with identical twins, there is initially only one zygote .

[XBob]

61 - "Did you know that science can even tell which one of the two individuals arrived first in the womb?"

Perhaps with fraternal twins, but with identical twins, there is initially only one zygote .

[XBob]

61 - So, then only 'most' individuals are created when sperm and egg unite, not 'all'.

And where do all those 40% of the 'souls' go which don't develop?

[XBob]

fact is, it does matter what I believe, in the USA, anyway. And I believe there should be a right to abortion, up to the point of a viable fetus, and many on this thread believe that there should be no right to an abortion, period.

So, I don't want their 'beliefs' to prevail and become law again, particularly, as they are beliefs and not beliefs I agree with.

[Tailgunner Joe]

So there should be no right to abort a "viable" fetus, but no penalty if one violate the fetus's right to live?

Excuse me, but you don't speak as one who commands a lot of moral authority.

[getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL]

When Is Human Life A Human Being?

When sperm and egg collide.

If there is a fire in a building and infants are inside, every fireman will rush in to save them, regardless of the risk.

If there is a fire in a building and petri dishes containing living fertilized eggs are inside, how many firemen will rush in to save them?

In the real world, if it isn't breathing on it's own, it isn't human.

So, if it isn't human, because it isn't breathing on its own, then those cell masses hooked to life support systems in our hospitals must not be human, either?

[MHGinTN]

Ker-ping

[XBob]

70 - "Excuse me, but you don't speak as one who commands a lot of moral authority."

Nor do you. But what does that have to do with our discussion.

We are talking about fantasy, and religious beliefs here, with the religious trying to overcome the logical fallacies of thier fantasy relious arguments.

Do you think I should adopt the morals of those Bishops and sleep with children, and flee from a hit and run too?

[Tailgunner Joe]

You are talking about fantasy. I am taliking about legality and morality. This article isn't even about religion. At some point the baby-killers are just going to have to realize that their fight is not with religion, but with science and law.

Do you think Scott Peterson should be charged with double murder? he killed his child, and it doesn't matter how far along the pregnancy was. Is only the mother allowed to kill the child?

Like I said, it doesn't matter what you believe.

[Polybius]

In the real world, if it isn't breathing on it's own, it isn't human.

I'll be sure to dictate that in my report the next time I read the chest X-ray of a patient in the ICU who is on the ventilator.

"A single AP portable view of the chest demontrates an endo-tracheal tube in place with it's tip 3 centimeters above the level of the carina thereby indicating that the patient is not human......"

[XBob]

Sorry - a fertilized egg is not a 'baby' - it is a 'potential baby', just as a sperm and an egg are a potential baby.

[Tailgunner Joe]

So you don't think he killed his baby. Luckily, it doesn't matter what you think.

[XBob]

cut down on your booze. You are acting drunk.

I have no idea if he killed anyone.

[MHGinTN]

Bob, when you were a toddler (I trust I'm not over assuming here), you were a potential teenager, a potential parent. You appear to be flowing back and forth between form and function and biological and philosophical, without dusting off as you transition. I notice you keep avoiding my question regarding spirit. Is there a superstitious reason for that?

[Tailgunner Joe]

You are drunk on the blood of murdered babies.