When Is Human Life A Human Being?

http://www.freebritannia.co.uk ^ | 6/16/2003 | Marvin Galloway

[MHGinTN]

In a recent article for First Things, Maureen L. Condic, PhD, Assistant professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy at the University of Utah, presents a convincing argument for meaning of the death protocol (used when organ harvesting is anticipated) to also be used when contemplating prenatal life. She has stated accurately that, “… the loss of integrated bodily function, not the loss of higher mental ability, is the defining legal characteristic of death.”

...

To paraphrase Dr. Condic’s assertion: to be alive as an ORGANISM, the organism is functioning as an integrated whole, rather than life being defined solely from an organ, a form within the organism. …

In order to accurately apply the meaning of the death protocol offered in Dr. Condic’s article, we will have to show how an embryo is more than a mere collection of cells. We will have to show how the embryo is in fact a functioning, integrated whole human organism. If the embryo can be defined on this basis, the definition of an alive, individual human being would fit, and the human being should be protected from exploitation and euthanasia.

What is the focus of the transition from embryo age to fetal age are the organs of the fetus. It is generally held that the organs are all in place when the individual life is redefined as a fetus. The gestational process during the fetal age is a process of the already constructed organs growing larger and more functional for survival. But during the fetal age, the not yet fully functional organs are not the sole sustainer of the individual life. The placenta is still drawing nourishment from the woman’s body and protecting the individual from being rejected as foreign tissue. If we are to apply the notion of a functioning integrated whole to define individual aliveness, the organs necessary for survival must all be included. Since the primitive brain stem and other organs such as primitive lungs, to be relied upon at a later age in the individual’s lifetime, are not yet fully functional, some other organ will have to be responsible for the functioning whole.

[XBob]

453 - "Take a look at what you propose in light of the right not to be killed by someone else (not the right not to die)."

According to your belief, do you not 'kill' someone if you flush a fertilized egg? In fact, you more than most, as you personally have the ability to save it.

[XBob]

454 - "If the first brick is capable of obtaining the rest of the materials through metabolic processes and guide, direct and assemble the rest of the house. "

So - then an apple seed is an apple tree? An acorn is an oak tree, yes?

[XBob]

455 - "so you are saying ... "John the Baptist was not a human in Elizabeths womb?""

Actually, there is another portion of the bible, which says all people (including John, I presume) are first created in the "bowels of the earth", long before ever getting to the womb.

[XBob]

456 - "A fetus grows from an embryo. A house does not grow from a brick."

So, then please build me an oak desk from acorns.

[Golden Gate]

Post # 42 - by Nix 2 = (Thread = http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/931405/posts)

...They are human, they are the result of HUMAN EGG and HUMAN SPERM. Therefore,they can ONLY be human...
Life is a wonderful mystery. All human life before seven weeks is female. Wonder how many raging feminists and/or NARAL tell the undeniably stupid that they are murdering a little girl if they murder it before the seventh week? PROVEN female before 7 weeks. ? ?

This statement that we all start out as "female" - I have seen this before, and once again, I think it needs to be clarified. Is this statement accurate?

The standard Pro Life material says that human life begins at conception. It says that with the union of the sperm and the egg, that there is a unique human life, that has a new and distinct genetic code. This genetic code determines the sex, - skin, hair and eye color, the height, ...personality, ... talents...etc. It has been my understanding that our sex was determined at conception, by our genetic code. However, as we begin to physically develop, we all have the physical appearance of being female. (On this thread, it is stated as being a period of seven weeks.) That during the seven weeks, we all have the physical appearance of being female. After that time, the male ...(?) embryo / fetus (?) then begins to develop his sexual organs and then has the physical appearance of being male. But, the actual determination of sex was at conception, - NOT seven weeks later.

I have seen this statement come up a couple of times in discussions. Once again, it needs to be clarified and the correct information needs to be circulated.

In this thread, FR's "Nix 2" is trying to make an important point. However, my first reaction is that it is a false statement, saying that 'we all begin our life as female, for the first seven weeks'. In previous discussions, I have seen it used by the uniformed, or by proaborts, so that they can make the point that, "See, life doesn't really begin at conception. It begins ?seven weeks later when our sex is determined." With the strong inference that, "See, you can't trust all that pro-life info. See, they're wrong. They didn't tell you this and that..." And most important, "See, life does N-t begin at conception".

I think this is an important detail that needs to be clarified. Please Help!

[XBob]

457 - "Personhood is defined by membership in the human species, not by a stage of development in that species. A living beings designation to a species is determined not by a stage of development, but by the sum total of its biological characteristics, actual and potential, which are genetically determined. If we say that the fetus is not human, a member of Homo Sapiens we must say that it is a member of another species, but this cannot be."

So, you need to screen your/your spouce's menes to fertilized eggs, and replant them, or else you are flushing living persons down the drain.

So, how many living persons have you flushed? "If personhood is determined by one's current capacities, then someone who is unconscious or sick could be killed immediatly because he is not demonstrating superior intellect and skills."

Get busy, the technology is there.

[XBob]

I refuse to continue with this dumb argument. Go soak your head in a bucket, for about 30 minutes.

[XBob]

469 - "Human conception begins a human being's individual lifetime. To end that lifetime, one must euthanize the already alive, struggling individual human being."

Screen every woman's menses, and implant every fertilized egg.

[XBob]

473 - Lovely story. And it shows that the definition of 'viable fetus', which I believe, should not be aborted.

Start screening your wife's menses.

[XBob]

484 - "This is the root of your pathology. You want to kill babies in order to extend your own life."

Unlike you, I happen to think I have more value than a single cell.

Tail gunner - you really don't think much of yourself, do you? I guess you haven't accomplished much. So perhaps you are right, that you aren't worth anything more than a single cell.

Well, I guess since you were replaced by a non-living computer, (no more tail gunners), I guess so.

[XBob]

484 - "How many innocents must die to disprove your unfounded hypothesis that you can syphon life from the corpses of dead babies?."

And since you think that a cell is a baby, then I guess that confirms it.

[XBob]

484 - "How many innocents must die to disprove your unfounded hypothesis that you can syphon life from the corpses of dead babies?."

Better start screening all your wife's menses and reimplanting all those 'babies'.

How many 'babies' have youall killed so far?

[XBob]

488 - "Your position, while minimally discomforting at the extreme you argue from, serves as the logical defense of all abortion, infanticide, and even euthanasia. You are the spiritual cousin of Sanger and Mengele."

Why, because I am trying to hold youall to your beliefs, which you are trying to imose on me?

Or, just where are you allowing yourself and others here to get out of their responsibility for their beliefs, at which stage of the development are you guilty/not guilty of murder/manslaughter when you don't try to save your 'baby'?

[XBob]

493- questions - yes - how many 'persons' have you and your wife 'killed' by flushing the toilet?

[palmer]

Bob, I am detecting a little doubt, you need to keep believing in yourself. Remember, you are just an innocent victim, you are entitled to endless treatments paid for by all of us. No amount is too good for you, and all taxpayer funded research should be directed to finding a "cure" for your "disease". Maybe you should talk to your doctor some more:

bob: Diabetes is not my fault right?
doc: No, there's nothing you can do except keep paying me money
bob: My diet has nothing to do with it right?
doc: Not substantively. Keep visiting so I can keep prescribing
bob: But I might be cured by new therapies using cloned embryos?
doc: That's right, the more human embryos we kill, the more likely you will be "cured"
doc: Of course "cure" really means lifetime treatment, and we might be able to use stem cells from your body instead, or some other sources of stem cells.
bob: No way man. You aren't touching my body, I want you to keep killing those embryos.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

"And since you think that a cell is a baby, then I guess that confirms it"

A baby, or fetus, is made up of many cells, just like you are. It has oxygen in its blood, just like you do. It has DNA. I think you do, too.

[XBob]

you are a fool.

[XBob]

516 - "A baby, or fetus, is made up of many cells,"

So then, you don't think a fertilized egg is a baby, like so many of the others here?

So when does a baby begin? How many cells make a baby?

[XBob]

and I have actually volunteered for several studies.

It might interest you to know that 100 years after the discovery of insulin, we still don't know how it works.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

You're avoiding the truth. Keep on trying to convince youself you're right. I can wait. You have all the info you need on this thread alone to make an intelligent decision. Something tells me guilt is the reason you aren't. But I won't waste my time with someone who only wants to argue, and not consider the truth. See ya 'round, have a nice day.