When Is Human Life A Human Being?

http://www.freebritannia.co.uk ^ | 6/16/2003 | Marvin Galloway

[MHGinTN]

In a recent article for First Things, Maureen L. Condic, PhD, Assistant professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy at the University of Utah, presents a convincing argument for meaning of the death protocol (used when organ harvesting is anticipated) to also be used when contemplating prenatal life. She has stated accurately that, “… the loss of integrated bodily function, not the loss of higher mental ability, is the defining legal characteristic of death.”

...

To paraphrase Dr. Condic’s assertion: to be alive as an ORGANISM, the organism is functioning as an integrated whole, rather than life being defined solely from an organ, a form within the organism. …

In order to accurately apply the meaning of the death protocol offered in Dr. Condic’s article, we will have to show how an embryo is more than a mere collection of cells. We will have to show how the embryo is in fact a functioning, integrated whole human organism. If the embryo can be defined on this basis, the definition of an alive, individual human being would fit, and the human being should be protected from exploitation and euthanasia.

What is the focus of the transition from embryo age to fetal age are the organs of the fetus. It is generally held that the organs are all in place when the individual life is redefined as a fetus. The gestational process during the fetal age is a process of the already constructed organs growing larger and more functional for survival. But during the fetal age, the not yet fully functional organs are not the sole sustainer of the individual life. The placenta is still drawing nourishment from the woman’s body and protecting the individual from being rejected as foreign tissue. If we are to apply the notion of a functioning integrated whole to define individual aliveness, the organs necessary for survival must all be included. Since the primitive brain stem and other organs such as primitive lungs, to be relied upon at a later age in the individual’s lifetime, are not yet fully functional, some other organ will have to be responsible for the functioning whole.

[XBob]

xxx - Hank - you need to get in on this one:

387 - Ah, here is the post I was looking for.

"Just how is a woman supposed to plan a funeral for a sloughed-off fertilized egg? Women are rarely aware when their fertilized eggs are sloughed off. "

This is exactly what MHGinTN and hocndoc are arguing for.

That It is immoral to purposely abort (or allow to die) a fertilized egg.

Therefore, and hocndoc, is it not quite technologically feasible today, to find a 'sloughed off fertilized egg' in the menses?

If their view prevails, we should return to the criminal penalties for abortion which existed prior to roe-v-wade, and we must start an immediate program to screen every fertilized woman's meses for fertilized eggs, and put them on life support (preferably by implanting them in the 'owner's uterus.

Ignorance is no excuse for condoning allowing 'people' to die, when the technology exists to save their lives.

Hocndoc, I am running behind. What do you propose to solve this giant problem of mass murder? And what punnishment do you recommend for women who dump their 'babies' into toilets or sanitary napkins?

[XBob]

395 - "You get such a kick out of posing weird extremes! LOL"

No more wierd than your extremes. Sperm and egg are not 'alive', then suddenly become 'alive'.

My extremes are valid, given your extreme assumptions.

And you keep trying to impact my life with your beliefs.

STOP IT.

A FERTILIZED EGG IS NOT A PERSON !!!!

[XBob]

395 - "You get such a kick out of posing weird extremes! LOL"

AND IF A FERTILIZED EGG IS A PERSON, GET OFF YOUR LAZY BUTT AND START PROGRAMS TO SAVE ALL OF THEM - REPEAT - ALL OF THEM - NOT JUST SOME OF THEM, WHICH YOU CONVIENTLY KNOW ABOUT.

WHAT KIND OF PERSON ARE YOU - SAYING - SORRY, TINY TINY PERSON (FERTILIZED EGG) WE WON'T TRY TO SAVE YOU, YOU ARE TOO TINY TO 'EASILY' FIND.

I GUESS YOU THINK ALL THOSE DEAD PEOPLE IN IRAQ DON'T COUNT AS DEAD, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THEM !!!!!

[Tailgunner Joe]

you people who think an egg should be protected are trying to kill me, through preventing stem cell research to cure my diabetes

This is the root of your pathology. You want to kill babies in order to extend your own life.

How many babies must you offer up on you sacrificial pyre befor you give up your vampiric quest to extend your own life at the expense of others?

How many innocents must die to disprove your unfounded hypothesis that you can syphon life from the corpses of dead babies?

[XBob]

401 - Interesting, I didn't know that:
"Jackie Kennedy had a miscarriage.
The child who was miscarried is buried with her in Arlington National Cemetery."

So, now, we have 2 or 3. How many fertilized eggs have you buried?

[XBob]

404 - "There are loads of other reasons that a woman's period can arrive late. Why hold a funeral when you don't know anyone died?"

Interesting - then we need to start collecting every menses from every woman, and check for fertilized eggs, and try to implant them before they die. It can be done, and according to your standards, we should do it.

[Kevin Curry]

. . . . the term human cannot be correctly applied to the unborn for purposes of moral or ethical considerations.

Why? Because you say so?

Of course it can be "correctly" applied in this manner. It is more logical and rational to do so.

It is merely more convenient and salving to the conscience of a killer to deny human status to the innocent and helpless unborn that he or she kills.

[Kevin Curry]

Your position, while minimally discomforting at the extreme you argue from, serves as the logical defense of all abortion, infanticide, and even euthanasia. You are the spiritual cousin of Sanger and Mengele.

[XBob]

Please screne your meses, or

"The meaning of "therapeutic cloning" and "embryonic stem cell research" is the killing of human beings who are no danger to anyone. "

stop preventing preventing this research to cure my sicknesses.

[XBob]

their major parts exist, just a brick exists, not as a brick but as part of a house. form has changed, not substance.

[XBob]

"I know that before R v W it was rare for the mother to be charged at all. I believe that the separate states define murder and degrees of homicide."

But it did happen, and abortion was criminal in Texas before rvw. so, if youall win, what do you think should be the punishment for allowing a fertilized egg to die?

[Tailgunner Joe]

Just like Mengele said the jews weren't human.

A new modest proposal: Harvesting embryonic children for their stem cells

[XBob]

427 - "self awareness is what distinguishes a human being from the animals. "

excellent - these people are trying to confer 'personhood' on a 'non-person' or a 'not-yet-person'.

[Tailgunner Joe]

It's simple. Animals are not persons. Unborn human beings are persons.

Any questions?

[XBob]

so, exotic food causes diabetes.

Amazing bit of 'knowledge'. Please alert all the doctors and 16 million diabetics in this country. And alert all the Thai's and Filipinos, and Vietnamese, and Chinese and Indonesians - they are causing diabetes all over the world.

Please tell congress that they were wrong in all those studies which said Agent Orange was one of the causes diabetes.

And don't forget to screen your menses and re-implant all fertilized eggs found.

[XBob]

Oh, I forgot too, I guess I should have ridden my bicycle delivering newspapers from jr high through high school 6 miles every day. Perhaps if I rode it 10 miles a day?

And then running 1 mile a day in the military, when I got diabetes. Perhaps I should have run 2 miles a day.

No, you figured it out - it was those 'exotic' vietnamese and filippino and thai foods. I guess that is why the Germans and Egyptians have such high diabetes rates, they eat that exotic German and Egyptian food and the 16 million American diabetics eat that exotic American food, particularly bread and potatoes (which shoot my sugar through the roof). Ah, how I dream of the exotic bread and potatoes.


LOL - you are hilarious.

[XBob]

so, before the placenta develops, it's not human?

[XBob]

445 - "I am not the one who is trying to get the political power to allow my religious beliefs to determine your reproductive choices."

This is exactly the problem. They are trying to force/jam their religious beliefs down our throats.

I want to jam their beliefs down their throats, and make them comply with their own beliefs. We need to get into their bedrooms, and make them get into their menses and save all these 'babies' in the menses, if they really think that way.

[XBob]

449 - "It is past time to make this the most important issue in America, to stop the holocaust. Folks like you want abortion legal and easy to obtain, regardless of the truth regarding the prenatal alive individuals to be slaughtered on the altar of convenience and expedience. You couch your assertions in religious gobbledy gook, as if to apply a patina of piety and 'personal choice'. It is disgusting, in the main. "

Absolutely - wow - you really said it. Now get busy and get every woman screening their menses. It is a holocost, throwing away all those human beings.

[XBob]

450 - "So, we need to follow MHGinTN's example, and prohibit sexual intercourse, except for the purpose of 'approved' creation of a new individual. "

So then, we need to all tie our tubes. Same difference. We need to prevent conception except for reproduction, as you practiced. Except that your wife can still concieve, so she needs her tubes tied.

In the mean time, start screening her menses, as she could be cheating, or she could have parthogenesis.