Big East may go to 16 teams no matter what

The ACC announced Tuesday that a vote for expansion might not occur until later this month, but regardless of the outcome the Big East is going to be proactive about its future and pursue a 16-team league, a source told ESPN.com.

At least one source close to the Big East said the conference wouldn't stand idle waiting to get raided again by the ACC or another league.

The source said the Big East cannot remain a fractured 14-team league in basketball and eight teams in football. The financial issues would still be divisive if the league remained as is even if Miami, Boston College and Syracuse return to the league. That's why the Big East has to protect itself. The basketball members of the league don't want to get left out by another wave of expansion.

If all three schools remained in the league, then the Big East could still add two schools that don't play football, such as Marquette out of Conference USA and Xavier out of the Atlantic 10. If only Miami leaves for the ACC, then the Big East would go after Louisville (Conference USA) for football and basketball to keep the Big East at eight football-playing members and then add schools such as Marquette and Xavier to get up to eight non-football schools.

The 16-team federation in the Big East would have cross-over games in basketball but probably would have a different revenue-sharing plan with the eight-school football group keeping its share of money.

The ACC is trying to gather support among its members to add Miami, Boston College and Syracuse to become a 12-team conference and have a football championship game.

The ACC needs seven "yes" votes from its membership of nine to add a school, and a vote in favor of Miami is expected to pass. Taking the Hurricanes would not crush the Big East, a charge that concerns ACC presidents in light of a lawsuit filed last week by Big East football schools Connecticut, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, West Virginia and Virginia Tech.

The ACC failed to reach a consensus on expansion in five hours of talks over two days last week.

The three Big East schools would have to pay a $1 million exit fee if they left for the ACC. The figure would double if they don't notify the Big East by June 30 and want to leave for the 2004-05 season. If they want to leave for the 2005-06 season, they have until June 30, 2004, to notify the conference and pay the $1 million fee.

Recent reports claiming the ACC would add only Miami in a first wave of expansion are not unfounded. The conference could easily expand to 10 without an uproar from its members. From a basketball standpoint, adding Miami and maintaining a true round-robin schedule of 18 conference games would be acceptable, Duke's Mike Krzyzewski told ESPN.com last month. And the addition of Miami in football would only enhance the ACC's product by giving it two national powers in the Hurricanes and rival Florida State.

The Big East likely would retain its spot in the Bowl Championship Series with eight football members, which would include Louisville as a replacement for Miami. In this scenario, Virginia Tech is the most prominent of the league's eight football teams. For basketball, a Miami-for-Louisville swap would actually make the Big East a better conference and even more attractive to television networks in the next negotiating period.

The ACC might petition the NCAA to hold a championship football game with 10 teams instead of the required 12, but this would be done not for competitive reasons but if a potential financial windfall presents itself. Splitting the league into two five-team divisions for football might not make as much sense. The ACC definitely would stay a 10-team conference in men's basketball in one linear division. Even if the ACC expanded to 12, basketball coaches would like to see a 12-team whole -- like the Big 12 -- and not two six-team divisions. Scheduling might mirror a football divisional schedule like the Big 12, but the standings would not show divisions.

If the ACC added only Miami for the 2004-05 season, then it could revisit expansion next year if it wanted to grow to 12. Sources told ESPN.com it would be more difficult for Miami to return to the Big East because of the lawsuit and criticism leveled by Big East presidents toward Miami president Donna Shalala. Boston College would be in a precarious position if it remained in the league that sued it, but the Eagles might not have a choice. Syracuse wasn't named in the lawsuit but was ready to accept an invitation to join the ACC out of what was termed a necessity to follow Miami.

Seven of the nine ACC schools must vote in favor of expansion for the plan to pass, but The Charlotte Observer reported Thursday that Duke, North Carolina and Virginia were opposed as late as last week's conference call. It was the hope of ACC commissioner John Swofford that formal invitations to Miami, BC and Syracuse would go out last Wednesday.

Sources have told ESPN.com the ACC is working extremely hard at swinging the vote of North Carolina. Swofford, the former athletic director at UNC, faces a much more difficult task in trying to persuade Duke to change its anti-expansion vote. The Blue Devils perennially are one of the worst football teams in Division I-A, and adding the likes of Miami, BC, and Syracuse would make competing in the ACC even more daunting for Duke.

The Tar Heels have been nationally ranked in the past and might be more receptive to expansion. However, North Carolina's faculty came out against expansion, in large part because it wasn't consulted. That's why university president James Moeser and athletic director Dick Baddour met with the faculty last week to discuss the expansion plan. If the university can persuade the faculty to go along with expansion, there could be hope for a "yes" vote.

Trying to sway Virginia to vote "yes" could be much more challenging. The Cavaliers are under extreme in-state political pressure because of the damage that could come to Virginia Tech from being left out. But a number of sources have said the Cavaliers would rather not have Virginia Tech in the same conference because of recruiting advantages (mainly in basketball) Virginia has over Tech as an ACC school.

The five remaining Big East football schools -- UConn, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, West Virginia and Virginia Tech -- filed a lawsuit to try to block expansion. The schools have accused the ACC, Boston College and Miami of taking part in a conspiracy to expand and ultimately to weaken the Big East. The lawsuit contends the five schools have invested millions of dollars in their football programs based on presumed loyalty from the other schools.

Andy Katz is a senior writer for ESPN.com. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

"Puke and the Tarholes are holding back because they are scared of flying and playing Syracuse."

I don't think that's the main reason, but I do think there's something to that idea. At least as far as UNC is concenrned. They're desperately trying to recapture their glory days in basketball after a few years of mediocrity. Bringing Syracuse into the mix is just one more huge hurdle they'd have to overcome to get back on top of the ACC. Plus Jim Boeheim has already shown that he can out-coach Roy Williams. Finally, I can't imagine any team would really look forward to flying that far to play in a place as big, crazy and inhospitable to visitors as the Carrier Dome. (Check out the Orangemen's home record this past season.)

http://espn.go.com/ncaa/news/2003/0618/1570063.html

Decision still not expected until end of month

ESPN.com news services

RALEIGH, N.C. -- Atlantic Coast Conference leaders met for three hours Wednesday about whether to add Miami, Syracuse and Boston College to the league but gave no timetable for another discussion.

The ACC presidents and chancellors, who have the final say on expansion, have met for eight hours in three separate teleconferences without coming to a consensus on adding the three Big East schools.

ACC spokesman Brian Morrison said league commissioner John Swofford had no comment on the issues discussed in the meeting or when another teleconference would be scheduled.

"This has been a longer process than I thought it would take,'' North Carolina State athletic director Lee Fowler said later Wednesday. "There have been things that have popped up that I thought had been resolved earlier.''

Duke and North Carolina have had questions about travel costs, student welfare and projected revenues of an ACC football title game and future TV contracts.

And Virginia is weighing political pressure from state lawmakers who want Virginia Tech included in the expansion mix.

Seven of the nine presidents and chancellors must vote in favor of expansion.

The ACC voted May 16 to pursue Miami, Syracuse and Boston College and site visits were completed in early June. However, the ACC announced Tuesday that a final vote may not come until the end of the month.

Meanwhile, no matter what happens, the Big East is going to be proactive about its future and pursue a 16-team league, a source told ESPN.com on Tuesday.

The three Big East schools would have to pay a $1 million exit fee. The penalty doubles after June 30 if the schools leave for the 2004-05 season.

"Everybody is ready for this to be over,'' said Fowler, who was on two of the three site visits. "It gets frustrating, but nobody is going to do anything until they get all the facts and feel comfortable with them.

"I assumed if we made these visits and things were good at these universities that it would just move along,'' he added. "But I still knew we had more work to do.''

That includes divisional alignment, an item in which more than 35 options have been discussed, Fowler said.

"None of this has surprised me because I've been through it in other leagues,'' said Fowler, who acknowledged getting nine schools on the same page is often difficult. "Even with great things, there are differences of opinions.''

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

"This has been a longer process than I thought it would take,'' North Carolina State athletic director Lee Fowler said later Wednesday. "There have been things that have popped up that I thought had been resolved earlier."

He's talking in part about the push to get VaTech included....apparently tech now has five votes and FSU and NC State are being solicited to get on board.

Imagine a conference with Florida State's The University of Miami's and Virginia Tech's Football teams.

Kneel before Zod! :o)

and Virginia Tech's Football teams

But VaTech said it was a terrible thing to do to abandon the Big East and leave friends behind when they joined the plaintiffs on the lawsuit, after they were voted out the first time.

Now they wouldn't be so hypocritical to accept the new offer would they, and leave Pitt, WVa and the rest of the unwanted Big East out there all alone, would they? I thought they were feeling all that love, loyalty, and brotherhood.

And what about the lawsuit? Aren't the Hypokies and Jerri "Jackboots" Kilgore now suing themselves if they do accept?

Forced in a conference that didn't want them by corrupt government thugs, ViPI SUE must be very proud. Another leftist "diversity" attack legislated by lawyers against US universities.

Appropriatly enough, UVa President (ex-UCONN Pres.), VPI implant, co-conspirator, and enabler Mullah John Casteen left Charlottesville last night under cover of darkness for exile in France.

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