Church tosses defiant minister: He refused to stop performing gay marriages

The Cincinnati Enquirer ^ | Tuesday, June 17, 2003 | Andrea Uhde

[MississippiMan]

Exactly, O. My wife is about as unsubmissive as they come by nature, but we both want to do what's RIGHT, not necessarily what our natural tendencies may be. Thus, she IS a submissive wife as that's defined in the Bible, but she'd laugh in anyone's face who thought she was "subservient."

mm

[ohioWfan]

"Husband of one wife," is not, to me, enough in and of itself to defend an absolutely-no-women-in-authority position.

There are churches which do not allow women to teach Jr High Sunday School classes because they think 13 year old boys are men, and women are Biblically mandated not to teach them......and there are churches that ordain women as complete equals in authority in the church.

I suspect the truth, as it usually is, is somewhere in between those two positions, and equally devout believers draw the line at different spots on the continuum. The danger comes when people ascribe the 'absolute' status to arguable positions that only belong to the essentials of Christian doctrine, i.e. the divinity of Christ, the cross, and the resurrection.

[bethelgrad]

He'll (God) "just have to restart the process..." to regain full membership.

[ohioWfan]

I like your wife! :o)

Your marriage sounds like ours.......it's wonderful, and it works!

(Maybe that's because it's the way God intended marriage to be......)

[ohioWfan]

Bethel, Minnesota grad??

[Chuckster]

"History fails to record a single precedent in which nations subject to moral decay have not passed into political and economic decline. There has been either a spiritual awakening to overcome the moral lapse, or a progressive deterioration leading to ultimate national disaster." --General Douglas MacArthur

Apparently, others are beginning to notice.

[HatSteel]

The point Ohio (Is that Ohio Wesleyan?) is that those who cite the "husband of one wife" verse are not ignorant bumpkins. They really do have a point, and those who discount their point because of theological liberal bias are only cheating themselves of the opportunity to think their way biblically and clearly through this issue.

Personally, I'm satisfied that there was a female order of deaconesses, but that there was no similar order of female elders.

The "no male or female" verse in Galatians can legitimately be limited to "God's acceptance" of anyone, no matter sex, race, economic condition.

[ohioWfan]

Well, my Baptist Dad went to Ohio Wesleyan, which is a Methodist school, but my family and I are now Presbyterian, and are hearing more of the Gospel in our present church than we heard for the past several years in our increasingly 'contemporary' Baptist church.

As to the role of women, our church is far from liberal and we have women who are elders. As I said before, prayerful, reasonable dedicated disciples of the Word come down at different points on the issue.

[HatSteel]

You might like your church. And I like mine which does the same thing.

But...female elders are arguably unbiblical. The argument against simply cannot be overcome. It can only be disagreed with on a patchwork-biblical basis.

[Protagoras]

The minister should have stepped down rather than hijack the church.

Which would defeat the whole purpose. That precise purpose is to hijack a major denomination in order to attempt to legitimize homosexuality and denigrate christianity. Most of these people are not christians in any logical sense of the word. They do not accept Christ as their lord and savior and they deny his divinity. They denounce scripture whenever it doesn't further their cause.

Many factors led them to choose the Presbyterian Church as their target. Too many to discuss here. Suffice it to say, if God wants this group of Christians to survive as a denomination, it will, and if other non-christians take it over completely it will also be his will. Trust him and wait and see. (which is not to say "let them do what they please unopposed")

[ohioWfan]

I respectfully disagree.

[MississippiMan]

Things usually do work when we do them God's way.

I'm reading between the lines that you're a fireball, like my dear bride. ;-)

MM

[irishtenor]

Take that up with God. He set the rules.

[irishtenor]

Coral Ridge is PCA.

[PAR35]

There are a couple of Korean Presbyterian denominations in the US, and I think there are a few small minor Anglo ones that you missed.

[irishtenor]

See 1Tim.2:11-14, and 1 Cor.14:33-35.

[longtermmemmory]

one for the good guys.

[HatSteel]

I appreciate the respectful disagreement. Too many around here begin to flame others when they disagree. You've been more than polite. It's refreshing. Allow me to repeat the basis of my point. The no-female elder position is a very valid Biblical position. It is far easier to demonstrate biblically. Therefore, (and here's the point) we are wrong if we attack those who have this position FROM THE STANDPOINT that their position is WRONG. We can only disagree with it; we cannot claim it to be wrong. 1. It is the historic position. 2. It is easily demonstrated biblically. 3. There is no biblical example of a female elder.

[AppyPappy]

PCUSA ministers are not member of their own churches.