[AveMaria]

What do the World War Two Buffs think of that nightmare scenario? Any possibility that the Germans could have expolited divisions in the US and the Americas, to defeat the US?

[AdamSelene235]

A more interesting question is: What would have happened if America has avoided WWI.

[Paleo Conservative]

1. They might have attempted to conquer Alaska, based on their ability to control Siberia and the arctic regions of Russia. From there, they would have rolled over poorly defended Canada, from which they would have launched a massive invasion from the sparsely populated North-Western US.

Roll over what roads? Alaska is huge wilderness area larger than all the territory the Germans conquered on the eastern front during World War II.

[SamAdams76]

I'm a WW2 buff and I don't see any feasible way that Hitler could have defeated the United States. Even if he had conquered Great Britain and the Soviet Union. The U.S. war machine by then was in high gear and fighting the war in two separate oceans. Hitler was doomed.

[Petronski]

You have to really spin a tale to make this work. For one thing, the Luftwaffe had no long range bomber (B-29 class).

[So Cal Rocket]

Is there a possibility that Hitler would have managed to take advantage of political, regional, and ethnic divisions in America in the 1940s, and defeated good old USA

Kinda sounds like what the Dems are trying to do....

[sharktrager]

A couple ofthings.

First, Hitler could not have reached out to the right wing in the US, or the south. Once he had taken Europe, those who were admirerers lost their admiration. Only a very small minority was fond of him.

Also, an invasion from Siberia wouldn't have been much easier than from Greenland or other European areas. The harsh climate and extended supply lives would have been a nightmare.

While South America did not strongly oppose Germany, neither was it atrongly pro-Germany. The axis had a great deal of opposition because of the historic opposition to Europeans, who had been the colonial masters. There was also problems caused by active terrorist cells in Latin America sponsored by Japan. (A little discussed reason that the internment happened in the US)

Finally, to get Mexico involved, Germany would have had to supply the equipment. That isn't any easier than an actual invasion. In fact, it's harder, because Mexico would have been unable to protect the unloaded equipment from an American attack. And there would have been no way to keep such massive movements secret, even in 1940.

The axis plan was to weaken the US through isolation, and tht was a long term plan from the German perspective.

[mitchbert]

Stalin understood the challenge best.

When it comes to invading the U.S. the ultimate problem isn't getting past the U.S. military, it's dealing with the 80 million snipers once you're there.

Kinda says something about the importance of the 2nd Amendment, doesn't it?

[VadeRetro]

The whole idea's pretty unworkable. He would have had absurdly long supply lines. You only have to look at the troubles he had in Russia to know how bad that can be.

[NovemberCharlie]

I have an alternate-history novel on that approximate topic. It's called 1945, and it was written by William R. Forstchen and Newt Gingrich (really!). In it, the US stayed out of the European theater, Germany controls almost all of Europe except for Britain, and Hitler launches a raid on Oak Ridge. Good book, but I've been awaiting the promised sequel for several years.

[AntiGuv]

Throughout the Second World War - even when it proved to his immediate tactical disadvantage - Hitler maintained two research, development, and construction programs: (1) a deep sea navy including aircraft carriers; (2) a long-range bomber fleet, including jet rocketry advances. By all appearances, Hitler had every intention of mounting an invasion of the United States from the Eastern Seaboard, with presumably the Japanese hitting us from the other direction.

As explained by an eminent WWII historian acquaintance of mine (he's published one of the foremost texts) the evidence strongly suggest Hitler intended to base his transatlantic invasion forces in Norway (he was going to bridge the Jutland Straits, incidentally) and the Azores Islands. His long-range bombers would fly sorties across the Atlantic as his deep-sea aircraft carrier based Navy led the invasion force.

In short, had Hitler succeeded in conquering the Soviet Union and the British Empire, we were soon on the list - probably by 1950 at the latest. Whether it would've proven a successful invasion (and whether he would've secured Western Hemisphere allies, such as Brazil) is another matter altogether. BTW, the reason Hitler clung so tenaciously to the Baltic Sea ports (even as his land forces were overrun by the Russians) was so he could continue the deep-sea navy R&D program.

PS. If one considers the Manhattan Project into this equation, then almost certainly we would have had a Cold War period with the Nazi Empire, followed perhaps by nuclear war once Hitler completed the inevitable crash nuclear program. I cannot imagine Hitler would've surrendered even if we used our three atom bombs in 1945.

[Consort]

The German Forces didn't do too well in the cold of the eastern front. And Mexico had already decided to do that using civilian rather than military invaders. The second Civil War thing could have worked for them.

[Brett66]

Germany's best chance would've been to develop an A-Bomb and force us to surrender, probably after demonstrating it's power in a couple of our largest population centers.

[Courier]

If he had won, Pat Buchanan might today be Chancel...err..President.

[Nexus]

If the Japs had played it a little smarter in the Pacific theater, could they have gained a foothold in (undefended) Alaska?

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

Hitler could not even get across the English channel much less the Behring Strait. Hitler did not 'have the horses.'

[Pistolshot]

Interesting.

Some here I've seen already suggested Hitler couldn't have invaded America directly.
This is true, BUT Hitler already had a rocket program with the V-2 and larger rockets in design stages, his scientists were working on the atom bomb using the heavy water from Norway for experimentation.
If the invasion of England had taken place and the British defeated, the Nazi's would have had a platform for launching directly on the NE cities of the US.
It would have been very devestating to this country if a number of V-5 rockets armed with 1 atomic device apiece were launched against us.

It would enflame the population, but to we would be limited in response due to the Atlantic distance.

[Terp]

Supply lines, supply lines!!!!! What was the German Army going to do? Live off the land. It would have never happened.

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

Oh and by the way in the 1940's one did not 'roll down' Alaska. The Alcan Highway was not built until the 1950's-the late 1950's if I remember correctly.

[section9]

What do the World War Two Buffs think of that nightmare scenario? Any possibility that the Germans could have expolited divisions in the US and the Americas, to defeat the US?

In short, no.

Whatever the outcome of Fall BARBAROSSA, the sinking of the Bismarck in May of 1941 removed Germany's last major surface combatant. Though Germany's U-Boats would do catastrophic damage up through mid-1943, Germany's lack of aircraft carriers, major surface combatants, and most of all, sealift and amphibious landing capability prevented any transantlantic ambitions from coming to pass. Indeed, the lack of sealift and landing capability, as much as the failure of the Luftwaffe to defeat the RAF in July and August of 1940, was as much responsible for the failure of Fall SEELOWE ("Sealion"), the projected invasion of Britain.

It is impossible to suppose that Germany, as it was even at the height of its powers in April of 1941, could have threatened America's domination of the Atlantic basin. It follows from that argument that no invasion of the United States could have gone much past a theoretical wargame at OKW Plans.

Not even the world's third strongest navy, Japan's Nihon Kaigun, could threaten the hold of the U.S. Navy on the oceans over a protracted period. As it was, Japan was only able to seize Attu and Kiska islands in the Aleutians.

Finally, a German invasion of Alaska presupposes a supply train that runs from Vladivostok all the way back to Western Russia on the Trans-Siberian Railway without attacks by Russian and Siberian partisans. Not freaking likely.

Continental powers such as France, Germany, and Russia appear incredibly strong but are never capable of winning global wars. Why? They don't control the seas. That's the key to everything. The Brits, the Americans, and the Aussies do.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[Spruce]

If I'm not mistaken, the Germans were pretty close to developing an atomic weapon. Given enough time Werner van Braun and his crew would have come up with a vehicle capable of delivery. The "Battle for America" would have been quite costly to America.