An INSANE situation up in Waltham, Massachusetts

Conservative Alerts.Com ^ | Chuck Muth

[jerrymdss]

1. Sure -- lets allow all parents to be the final arbiter on their childs eduaction and see where we end up.

2. I did not say take the child away nor was I commenting on that part -- however, they should be fined for breaking the law.

3. The "genius freedom philosophers" continued on by imposing new laws in the new land -- not sure what you are talking about here.

4. Sure self-serving laws are a problem -- but chaos? I dont think so. But take away laws and you will see chaos as well as no more USA faster than you could imagine.

Suggestion: Stating you opinion is fine -- please dont bother with the unprofessional flames. They empower the people that post for this purpose and give others like myself a reason to not respect your post.

[jerrymdss]

Yes. If the system is broke fix the system but bypassing it is no solution. BTW: It is not the state's standards that are broken, it is the implementation of education in the schools. By any standards, if the implementation is not carried out effectively, then the education will suffer. But allowing arbitrary parent decision to educate a child as a parent sees fit is no solution.

[The Coopster]

They seem like people who want to be left alone not draw attention to themselves.

Please. Have you seen the interviews? They are eating this up, and their whole demeanor smacks of someone who couldn't give a sh!t about their kids, only caring about causing a scene.

And until they come up with a standardized way to ensure the homeschool kids are REALLY being taught, they will just have to live with the consequenses of disobeying the law that is currently in place.

You can't simply choose not to follow a law that you don't like, which is already in place. You have work to get the law changed.

[jerrymdss]

Yeah I have heard this argument so many times before from many persons who can criticize but offer no practical solution. Sure, take away the drivers license test and qualifications -- that's a real good practical solution. The problem is that the driver's license qualifications should be tougher but are not for a simple reason. If they were harder too many people would not qualify, so it is a basic logistical problem that is not easily solved.

Suggestion: Think and be constructive and offer an opinion that has some benefit to readers.

[jerrymdss]

No, you are speaking for me which really means you are talking about yourself. You must be sensative about the secret agenda thing -- usually a good indicator of someone whose got one.

Your absolutly negative critical nature is of absolute no benefit to anyone -- a 3rd grader could have done better. Suggestion: Offer helpful comment.

As for how many would impose on others, a reasonable estimate would be at least half. There are certainly more people around that are selfish in their motives. It is not hard to discern that.

Next time think before you open your little mindless trap, stuff your HankKerchief in your mouth and do everyone a favor. I thought a requirement to post on FR is that you have to be at least 18?

[Old Professer]

Sounds more like Outer Limits.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

So you are a socialist then?

[Spirited]

"we are forcing those parents to teach to the test"

As a former public school teacher with multiple degrees I can say that that is precisely the problem. It is one of the reasons why I am grateful that our children were astute and loving enough to take the education of their own children in hand in order to expand the capabilities of each child consistent with the multiple talents and interests of the child and not the "system".

The people whom I would least trust to judge the educational level of any child is an NEA (Union) endowed educational bureaucrat.

The oldest of these precious homeschooled treasures is the beginning of the "proof of the pudding"; a Merit Scholarship finalist with a full, full scholarship to a major state university in a field of science and course of study that boggles the imagination of the rest of us.

Each of the others is expected to be and perform at whatever level is consistent with "his" responsible best efforts and maturity levels. Some may mature early or late, others with dyslexia or discalculia are afforded the freedom to move quite differently through the cirriculum toward their own set goals.

Each will also be encouraged to obtain a teaching certificate in college along with the degree toward which "he" is working so that as a parent that individual will not be able to be kept from educating his own child.

Long term each will succeed without a hitch as a capable, wage earning adult, creative, responsible, happy and free of peer or goverment imposed thinking impediments or "standards".

The reason this type of child is feared is that as an adult he cannot be manipulated or programmed--and oh governments and unions love to "program".

[Hank Kerchief]

Next time think before you open your little mindless trap ...

Well, thanks for the advice. I'll be sure to refer to your enlightening post as an example whenever I want to be sure I'm being reasonable and helpful.

Hank

[Spirited]

There are very fine Osteopathic hospitals as well.
Osteopaths are fully qualilfied in every way as an MD is. Both are Doctors. Both are licensed to write prescriptions, for example.

In many fields the Doctor of Osteopathy can outdo the MD. What they are not is glorified chiropracters. Many no longer do manipulation, more's the pity. If they do manipulation it is done differently from chiropractic and each has it's own strengths.

Our problem in the USA is that the public has been brain washed by the doctor's union, the AMA and the for profit chemical producing corporations like Merck et al to believe all kinds of half-truths and lies so that your health care can be "managed" by those who can profit most from your enormous monetary contribution along with the contribution of other tax payers.

[Spirited]

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. If D.O.s are not trained to your liking that still might suit those of us who are even less impressed with the way in which the US physician is trained. (No offense intended.)

I might also suggest that you read a little about the judgment levied against the AMA for trying to ALSO denegrate chiropractic:

http://www.chiro.cc/files/amavschiro.pdf

It includes such lines as these:
"“On August 27, l987, Judge Susan Getzendanner, United State District Judge “............”found the American Medical Association, The American College of Surgeons, and The American College of Radiology guilty of having conspired to destroy the profession of Chiropractic in the United States.".....

“Evidence at the trial showed that the defendants took active steps, often covert, to undermine chiropractic educational institutions, conceal evidence of the usefulness of chiropractic care, undercut insurance programs for patients of chiropractors, subvert government inquiries into the efficacy of chiropractic, engage in a massive disinformation campaign to discredit and destabilize the chiropractic profession and engage in numerous other activities to maintain a medical physician monopoly over health care in this country.” ................

“Evidence in the case demonstrated that the AMA knew of scientific studies implying that chiropractic care was twice as effective as medical care in relieving many painful conditions of the neck and back as well as related muscoloskeletal problems.”......

Queen Elizabeth II is arguably the wealthiest woman in the world. I was pleased with her good sense a very few years ago when I read that her "lead" physician at that time was an Homeopath! That certianly didn't mean that she had no MD or other physicians but for her (and for an enormous number of Europeans on every level of society) homeopathy has the only answers to some health problems.

Many european MDs are also homeopaths, chiropracters herbalists, DOs or whatever else they believe will enable them to help the people they serve. (Yes, I did say "serve".)

That course of action is made very difficult in the United States because greed and money speak so loudly. The chemical companies who make medications put enormous amounts of money behind the AMA and into the pockets of our physicians through whom they control everything regarding health care.

It is not only the schooling of your child controlled by a union (NEA). It's the conduct and parameters of your health care controlled by another union, AMA. (Thankfully not all physicians approve enough to belong to it, by the way.)

I am not against MDs. There are some in my family. I simply do not believe they are the gods they want to be. That is, they are not best at everything.

Had an eye problem which required surgery. My opthalmologist pushed me a little too hard about it and I decided he was not the person I wanted to work on my precious sight. (I had just known a woman to lose sight as a result of such surgery by another surgeon.)

I went to Johns Hopkins and Walter Stark, an MD, did the surgery. I learned from the examinations why my opthalmologist was breathing a little strangely. Stark's answer to the "hard" comment of the delightful young doctors present was, "But hard is what we do."

While he was "in there" he did some creative "cutting" and I do not even have to wear specs for the shortsightedness these days. That is "godlike" and I will bow before him any day but I wouldn't go to him for cranial problems, spinal involvements, or any number of other things.

Even my european physician friends say almost all US counterparts know is "cut, burn and poison". I (and they) understand that each has its' own place but none should be taken without the "first do no harm" considered very, very seriously and at length because there is a great deal more out there. After all it is the "practice" of medicine. I intend to be careful about who practices on me and from what frame of reference they come to confront the problems I present.

[Osage Orange]

You wrote:

"There are very fine Osteopathic hospitals as well. Osteopaths are fully qualilfied in every way as an MD is. Both are Doctors. Both are licensed to write prescriptions, for example. "

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Hi......yes, you are correct. And there is a "history" of misinformation, and ignorance of the profession. I'm quite sure there is also a "history" of friction between MD's and DO's....

I can count some DO's among some of the best Dr's that I know...I can count some DO's among the worst too.

I've worked in a couple Osteopathic facilities, and with many fine DO's associated with Oklahoma State University. From most accounts OSU has a nice well-respected program.

FRegards,

[wcbtinman]

re:post 280

I'm really touched. And so you seem to be.

You are still in denial.

[jerrymdss]

Suggestion: Dont start the problem by attacking someone for their right to express their opinion.

[donmeaker]

I don't know what disease happened in Kuwait, but usually war related diseases are associated with dirty water(cholera) or malnutrition(flu). Neither is associated with a temporary interuption of vaccines.

I suggest that people who refuse to vaccinate should be allowed to not be vaccinated. They live with the residual risk of disease, and avoid the risk of vaccination. I wish there were allergy tests, so you could find out if you were sensitive to a vaccination before you got the shot. Sensitive people should not have the shot, and would be protected partly by being around vaccinated people, and partly by other health measures (wearing a mask, or taking prophylactic drugs)

What bugs me is there is no program to opt in for diseases like small pox that have low recent history, but still, to me, a high risk for some occupations. Grave diggers, or exhumers, archeologists should have all their immunizations up to date! And if you are an archeologist who is sensitive to a vaccine: reality check time: is the risk worth it to you?

Go do the right thing.

[TigersEye]

Please. Have you seen the interviews?

No, were they part of this article? Have you posted them? Have you provided any links to them on this thread?

And until they come up with a standardized way to ensure the homeschool kids are REALLY being taught, ...

Apparently you haven't seen my posts. I don't think the government has any business insuring that children have any education at all. That should be up to the parent.

You can't simply choose not to follow a law that you don't like, which is already in place. You have work to get the law changed.

So the War of Independence was wrong? The Civil Rights marches of the 60's? The Underground Railroad that helped slaves escape the south? I most certainly can choose to break the law if I see fit. As Thomas Jefferson said "Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God." If they outlaw possession of firearms completely will you obey that law?

[The Coopster]

If you aren't well-informed enough to have seen them one of the half dozen times they were interviewed on the various news channels, that's not my problem. Look them up yourself. They were completely smug, and very Berkely-esque, IMO.

And it's obvious that you don't think that the government has anyplace in your life. You "constitutionalists" fall back on the same ol', same old everytime you don't agree with a given policy - advocate disobedience, while equating your particular issue with The War for Independence, What if they come for your guns?, etc.....Along with the obligitory Jefferson quote. Fine. Side with the parents, who are most certainly free to break the law.

And are equally free to reap the rewards.....

Now's the point where you refer to me as the sheeple, the dimwitted who can't see the mass government conspiracy to take over ALL things, culminating in a New World Order eerily similar to Sanctuary in Logan's Run, etc, etc....

[ConstitutionLover]

Gee you have them pegged pretty well! These so-called "constitutionalists" are ignoring the one constitution that really matters in this case, the Massachusetts Constitution. That document, written by John Adams (no lesser a founding father than Jefferson), clearly sets the foundation for today's laws governing the interests of the state in the education of the public. I doubt any of these "constitutionalists" have ever read it.

[TigersEye]

If you aren't well-informed enough to have seen them one of the half dozen times they were interviewed on the various news channels, that's not my problem. Look them up yourself. They were completely smug, and very Berkely-esque, IMO.

They couldn't possibly be as smug as you are. I don't have or watch television. Don't need a propaganda pipeline in my house. Most FReepers who think they have something worthwhile to add can back it up with at least a link to something. I have commented on what has been presented on this thread, both the article and other FReeper submissions. I would characterize your contribution as more of an emission.

And it's obvious that you don't think that the government has anyplace in your life. You "constitutionalists" fall back on the same ol', same old everytime you don't agree with a given policy - advocate disobedience, ...

Horse puckey! I beleive the government was intended to operate within strict boundaries, boundaries clearly set forth in the Constitution. The accusation that "us constitutionalists fall back, everytime, advocating disobedience" has no basis in truth. Something else you can't back up with proof. Just another broad brush painting of someone you disagree with created from whole cloth from your imagination. You're a mental gnat. Buzz off!