Test? We Don't Need No Stinkin' Test!

Who's responsibility is it to assure a child's education...parents or bureaucrats?

This gets right to the heart of the limited government debate. At first blush, this seems an easy and non-debatable question. But once the cradle-to-gravers and their bureaucratic henchmen get involved...watch out!

Are we really supposed to trust government bureaucrats to teach our kids how to read and write and add and subtract when it often seems the only thing they're any good at teaching is how to 'multiply' (and I ain't talking about nine-times-eight, if you get my drift)?

Which brings me to a battle royale over home-schooling which blew up in Waltham, Massachusetts last week.

Kim and George Bryant have been home-schooling their two kids, George (15) and Nyssa (13), much to the chagrin of the Waltham Public School (WPS) system. The Bryants thus far have refused to force their children to take a government-mandated standardized test to assess their education level.

The WPS empire struck back last year, obtaining a court order giving custody of the kids to the Department of Social Services (DSS), which ever since has been threatening to take the kids away from their parents.

As the MetroWest Daily News reported on Friday, "Both sides agree that the children are in no way abused mentally, physically, sexually or emotionally, but legal custody of the children was taken from Kim and George Bryant in December 2001." They were ruled to be "unfit" for not filing educational plans with the government.

In fact, George Bryant was actually ARRESTED six years ago for failing to comply with the government's dictates over the home-schooled education of HIS children.

This six-year legal battle exploded on Thursday as bureaucrats from the DSS showed up at the Bryants' home with police escorts at 7:45 a.m. and attempted to remove the children from their home and force them to take the mandated tests.

Once again, the Bryants told the government agents to pound dirt, resulting in a seven-hour standoff. "This has been a six-year battle between the Waltham Public Schools and our family over who is in control of the education of our children," said Bryant.

How DARE these parents stand up to the government and defend their right to raise their children as they see fit? Who the hell do they think they are?

At least, that's the attitude of one outrageous government bureaucrat involved in this brouhaha.

"We have the legal custody of the children and we will do with them as we see fit," DSS trooper Susan Etscovitz told the Bryants Thursday morning. "They are minors and they do what we tell them to do."

It is near impossible to describe the rage I feel inside every time I read those chilling words.

The sheer audacity of a bureaucrat to make such a statement about someone else's children who are in no way abused in any shape, form or fashion is beyond comprehension to me.

Comrade Etscovitz maintained on Thursday that, "No one wants these children to be put in foster homes. The best course of action would be for (the Bryants) to instruct the children to take the test."

One can just imagine her words being delivered with a thick East German accent: "Oon now, all vee need ees dee kidz!"

This isn't about education. It's about control. It's about an imperial government trying to crush a movement in its infancy which could one day spell the end of the public school monopoly over our kids' educations.

Home-schooling means children might start learning again. REAL learning. Not "whole language" and "self-esteem." Learning about radical notions such as freedom, liberty and personal responsibility. Notions such as limited government and the Constitution and the vision of our Founding Fathers.

BRUSHFIRE ALERT: As it appears that DSS is getting its marching orders from the Waltham Public Schools, it seems the best place to start is with the School Superintendent there. Her name is Dr. Susan Parrella. She can be reached via email at parrellas@k12.waltham.ma.us or by phone at (781) 314-5400.

Emails are great...but nothing quite ruins a bureaucrat's day like dealing with a flood of phone calls. I know. I just called. The woman who answered the phone hung up on me when she found out what I was calling about. They do NOT want to answer any questions about this.

Oh, and by the way. I reached Ms. Etscovitz this morning. She was not a happy camper once she found out what I was calling about. Refused to comment on her "we will do with them as we see fit" statement, saying only, "I'm terminating this conversation now," before slamming the phone down.

I think it would really bug her if a lot of people called (781) 641-8500, so please, please don't rattled her cage, OK? That number not to call again to reach Susan Etscovitz is (781) 641-8500. That's (781) 641-8500.

Let's see, the goverment has required that children be educated up through the 8th grade. Now the parents have decided to take that responsibility upon themselves; and for that I commend them. However, if they have shirked their responsibility and ingored their children's education, they have not only done a dis-service to their children, they have sabotaged the entire home-school system. The laws of the land allow home-schooling, but they also require testing to verify that the minimum requirements have been met. You can't pick and chose which laws you want to follow.

This is the sticky point. In a class of 'x' students, if 100% of them flunk a test, the material was obviously not presented. If 75% pass, the material was at the least presented to the children.

By refusing to have his kids take the test, the state has no idea if the kids have ever even seen a school lesson. For all the state knows, the kids are doing absolutely nothing, and will be deprived of the minimum required eduation (8th grade), thus will be totally illeterate, simply do to a parent that wanted to sabotage the system by sacrificing his children.

When you assume the right of educating your children, you assume the responsibilities of doing so. By law, this means that your children will given a standardized test, just like everyone else's kids.

The laws require no such thing. IIRC private schools, including home schools, are exempt from MCAS.

There parents may be stubborn about this matter, but they are not lawbreakers.

If you think Susan Etscovits is doing such a great job I suggest you use anywho.com to find her phone number and tell her so. She would probably appreciate it since I'm sure a number of people have told her otherwise.

Are you saying that a homeschooled child has no manditory testing to be taken? That a parent has the ability to pull a child out of school, and bypass education entirely??

I have no problem with homeschooling, but would certainly THINK (no, I do not know)that some testing would be done to ascertain whether the parent is performing their duties as a teacher. Otherwise, a 'bad' parent could sabotage the child's entire life, by intentionally bypassing the most basic education required to hold a minimum wage job. The implications of no required testing in home schooling is horrendous... a child could grow up never even learning the alphabet; because a parent wanted to show 'the man' who's boss.

The implications of no required testing in home schooling is horrendous... a child could grow up never even learning the alphabet; because a parent wanted to show 'the man' who's boss.

How frequent do you think that would be? And why would it be a concern for the state instead of that particular family?

The issue is not what is learned, it is who has the right to educate. If you wanted to only teach your child from the bible, who is the department of education to say you are wrong. Let's cut to the heart of this whole debate. The question is who has the ultimate right over a person/childs life? If we set up boundries based on anything other than abuse, we are allowing the government to determine what is right and wrong.

Right now it is a case of testing for reading, writing, math, etc. Once we have accepted the premise that they have the right to check up on what we are teaching our children, they can add to their list of what is appropriate. What happens when these children fail the cultural awareness section? The tolerance section? The sex ed section?

As soon as the governments right to dictate what a child learns takes hold, we are definitely slaves. This whole discussion reeks of "But what about the children?". You worry about yours, I will worry about mine. Unless my kids are victimizing you our your kids, leave them alone. The mandatory testing is just another manifestation of the fact that the government has the ultimate right over all of us.

This is about rights, not about mandatory testing. I shutter to think that the answer is that the government has the rights.

How frequent do you think that would be? And why would it be a concern for the state instead of that particular family?

How frequent? I would certainly hope it never happened. But at least schools have tests to determine and measure that the kids have at least been exposed to the core cirriculum. The concern is that no parent has the 'right' to condemn his child to a life of poverty. The law has been set to protect children from illiteracy. The minimum requirements have been set to the 8th grade. The only way to ensure that home-schooling is not sabotaging the future of these kids, is standardized testing. As to who suffers, the victims are the kids who have no option but a life of menial labor; and the taxpayers who will be forced to burden their weight for their inability to care for themselves.

If you want to teach your kids from the bible; I have no problem with that. If they can read the bible, they can read just about any material presented to them. They will have the basics of sentence structure, phonics, and should be able to pass the same type of test that a school child would. It's nothing to do with teaching morals, that's a different topic. I'm concerned with the issue "How do we know the child is being taught ..... anything at all"

And the gov't should be able to test for math, science, writing ect. That is what school is for. Math is typically not a fun subject for kids, I know I didn't like it; and I'm certain I wasn't alone. But its required to get through life. From buying groceries to balancing a checkbook, math is a part of life. Other than joining the team of migrant workers, without the basics in education; you have no future.

And the gov't has the right to dictate what a child learns. That's why it is THE LAW that children are REQUIRED to be educated up through the 8th grade. It's just recently that some parents (and usually very good parents, with outstanding success rates) do this just that. However, manditory testing is a measure of checks and balances to determine whether the parent has home taught was was agreed upon when the parent decided to homeschool.

Without any testing whatsoever, parents could opt to homeschool, and we will wind up with a generation of kids who not only cannot read, but may have never learned the alphabet, count to 10 or do anything other than recite their parents favorite bible verse, or do Ophra impressions.

Judging by the test in Florida, I would say that public school systems need to get their own house in order before going into someone else's.

I am not sure the test is totally bad but when were homeschool organizations asked what they would like to see in it. Could be after their input, no public school student would have a chance at passing it. While some parents may not be effective at homeschooling, I have read that overall homeschooled children outperform their public school peers.

I have read that overall homeschooled children outperform their public school peers.

I whole heartedly agree. And it makes sense, as who is going to be more concerned about their child's future than the parent. I can think of no reason why a homeschool parent would object to a standardized test, to see not only if their child has learned the material; but also to measure how well their child has done relative to the population in the nation. If their child is weaker in a particular subject than his peers, how would a parent know? They have no one to compare their child to.

I do agree that schools are not doing as well as one would hope. But parents must shoulder some of the blame. If 100% of the class failed a test section, one could argue that they were not exposed to the material. But as >60% do pass, the material has been presented in some form or another, maybe presented poorly but presented nonetheless. If kids do not do their homework (ie parent's job) or do not get help on difficult subjects (again, parent's job), the kids may fail.

But if a parent decides not to teach math, english, or science; the child does not have a chance. I think a parent has the right to teach; but they do NOT have the right to sabotage their child's right to an education.

I agree, I don't care WHO teaches the kids (parents or a certified teacher), just that the kids ARE being educated. I respect the parent's right to teach not only religous ideals, morals and ethics but mathematics, sciences, language and mathematics (and the other required subjects: geography, history, ect).

However, I don't think it's unreasonable to either the parent or the child to expect that testing will occur. This protects the child in that is assures that the parent is abiding by the accepted school plan; and it provides the parent with a measure of how well, or how poorly their child is doing compared against their peers.

These parents are refusing to have their children tested. This makes me question whether they have bothered to teach the kids at all. A parent has the right to teach their children, but not to sabotage the child's education.

Check your American History. At one point in time, schools were not required and illiteracy was chronic. Parents decided that having the kids at home was more important than having them at school. Thus the Feds mandated that children MUST be educated through the 8th grade. This law (and it's a good law) forces parents to allow their children to be educated. Recently parents have fought for the right to teach their children at home. And this is not a problem for me, as long as the kids are being taught. The only way to accurately measure to see if a parent if fulfilling their obligation is to test the kids. Give the homeschooled kids the same test as everyone else, then compare.

When a parent says "I demand to teach my kids" and instead puts them to work in the fields; the kids are being cheated out of their rights. As I've stated before, a parent may have the right to teach their children; but they do NOT have the right to sabotage their children's education.

And big brother governemnt is just the one to do the testhing eh?

We are talking about a Standardized Test here, it's the same test given to the kid's peers nationwide. How else do you measure whether the kids are being taught, instead of playing or working on the family business?

"Without any testing whatsoever, parents could opt to homeschool, and we will wind up with a generation of kids who not only cannot read, but may have never learned the alphabet, count to 10 or do anything other than recite their parents favorite bible verse, or do Ophra impressions."

You are concerned that a few parents might be creating this outcome, when we know for certain that thousands of children in the public school system in cities "who not only cannot read, but may have never learned the alphabet, count to 10 or do anything", even recite their parents favorite bible verse. Most homeschoolers spank public school kids in almost every category. We could save billions, and get better results. Even if the results were as awful as the public school system, at least we would be saving a ton of money.

I am not a Christian, but I am conservative. I am going to homeschool my kids not to teach them the bible, but so they will not be taught cultural relativism. I want them to learn the english language, not the PC language hi-jacked by the Dept. of Education. I should not have to submit to some jackbooted official who gets to determine if I am doing a good job. The submission to their tyranny just allows the PC police in the door.

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