Iranian Students are reportedly holding 3 Hebollah hostage demanding release of 80 students

Interview with Iranians in Tehran | 6.13.2003 | DoctorZin

[DoctorZIn]

I just heard from friends in Tehran.

They are telling me that the Students have taken three memebers of Hizbollah hostage. They are demanding the release of the eighty students that had been arrested by the regime four days ago.

They are very optimistic that things are going to change soon. They can hear the protests and see the courage of the people to stand against the regimes forces.

It was also reported that the students had taken over the televison station in the city of Shiraz.

Also of interest, most of them watch LA based Iranian TV for news. These are the same satilite stations that are struggling to stay on the air for lack of support among US business or government. It appears they are doing for Iran waht we can't even do for Iraq. In case you don't know this, the US still does not have broadcasts in Iraq, while the Iranians do.

Finally, the Tehranians were asking “why they haven’t heard from President Bush?.”

[DoctorZIn]

You might find this interesting.
It is a report of what various Iranian newspapers are saying about the unrest.

Iranian press takes sides over unrest

BBC Montoring Services
June 14, 2003

US-based TV channels like Azadi have been accused of incitement
Editorial writers in Tehran's newspapers on Saturday adopted sharply different stances on the protests in the capital over the past four nights.
Conservative papers were firm in their belief that the unrest was US-inspired and would be resisted.
By contrast, the reformist press saw the events as a major test for the Iranian leadership and urged restraint.


Jomhuri-ye Eslami - hardline, pro-Khamene'i
It would be naive if anyone were to imagine that the recent unrest in Tehran is an accidental phenomenon and that there is no link between the unrest and America's threats against the Islamic Republic of Iran in recent days and weeks... If the people are fully informed about the course of events and the plots, they will safeguard their revolution and their system with all their might, and they will bury America's pawns and agents in a single day.


Kayhan - hardline
Stirring up unrest in Iran by elements inside the country and echoing their voices does not cost White House strategists anything. But final warnings have to be issued to those who are wandering stupidly and undecided in the midst of this great trial of strength... No nation or state will forgive traitors.


Iran Daily - moderate
[Commentary by Ali Taheri] It seems as if the ultimate goal of the current pressure tactics against Iran is to topple the ruling establishment... Three US considerations are on the table with respect to Iran: fully-fledged military attack, limited military engagement and weakening the system from within. It seems that for now the last option is weighing heavier.


Aftab-e Yazd - reformist
While the necessary care must be taken, sensitivities must be rationalised so that a group of people cannot suggest that any protest or gathering must necessarily be based on foreign plans and be aimed at overthrowing the system, because this is, on the one hand, an insult to everyone who has a right to protest against government decisions ... and, on the other, exaggerates the enemy's power and suggests that others have undue influence on our country's internal affairs.


Hambastegi - reformist
This author's advice is that lessons should be learned from the past and efforts should be made to bear the cost of the process of finding solutions to crises, with our eyes focused inside the country not on the expectation of foreign intervention, because Iran belongs to Iranians.


Tose'eh - reformist
Paying attention to Iran's determining role in the region and the need to preserve this role demands that the country's officials and the political groups involved in the power structure concern themselves - before anything else - with safeguarding stability inside the country and, by adopting a wise approach, solve problems in a way that prevents tension and conflict in society.


Etemaad - reformist
In previous years, the people still had hope in the reformists within the state, but, today, far from having hope in them, their main protests are directed at the reformists. This move has a message for the leadership as a whole and for [President] Khatami in particular. The message is too clear to need explaining and Khatami and his allies are too intelligent not to have received it... At the same time, it is a major test for the leadership as a whole so that they can display the extent of their tolerance.


Yas-e Now - reformist
None of us has the slightest affinity with any protests that are provoked by the foreign-based opposition with the aid of satellite TVs... but it is as clear as day to us that, by using vindictive beatings and uncontrolled actions undertaken by irresponsible or even responsible forces, the state will teach violence and hooliganism to the protesters... We hope that officials are aware of their sensitive responsibility and act with more wisdom.


Source: Info net

http://www.iran-daneshjoo.org/cgi-bin/smccdinews/viewnews.cgi?category=5&id=1055608134

[PeoplesRep_of_LA]

I wouldn't worry too much about this Alireza Doostdar, he has the talking points on "neo" cons, and the MKO, which last I heard the GOP was the one calling them terrorists that we shouldn't ever support.

This is a Leftist, it doesn't matter what country they come from, they all have the same agenda and end up reading from the same script.

If those people want "freedom" they like the United States.

[TomB]

Excellent info. Thanks.

So what do you make of Doostdar's whining (other than he's a student a Harvard)?

[Steel Wolf]

Well, apart from my preference to bomb not help them, Iranians cannot direct such hatred at America and expect us to shrug it off and forget about it

If this is the depth of your position, then its safe to say you don't have a lot to contribute to this discussion. You're so blinded by hate of a past wrong that you can't see an opportunity for payback when it presents itself.

The people you're angry with are being threatened by people who won't be a danger to us if they succeed. We stand to lose nothing by at least morally encouraging the opposition to defeat the mullahs.

I realize that's not so cathartic as 'don't help them, bomb them', but you can at least see that its in our interests.

[CyberAnt]

FOX IS DOING A STORY ON IT RIGHT NOW - 12:04 pm PST

[CyberAnt]

PRESIDENT ISSUES A STATEMENT RE IRAN STUDENT PROTESTS - VERY HOT - VERY SUPPORTIVE STATEMENT!!

[DoctorZIn]

Can you provide a link to the statemnent?

[cake_crumb]

"attack the regime as we did in iraq."

You make it sound so simple. It isn't.

[cake_crumb]

"Otherwise they wouldn't need the likes of me to tell them that no matter what the dispute is inside Iran, the vast majority don't like George W. and they certainly don't like the pathetic pawns that America supports and funds, like Reza Pahlavi"

The US government's not supporting him. Or funding him.

Anyhow, thank that blogger for me if you can....I'm really tired of repeating myself as to all the points about why we can't go into Iran. He makes the case. Or rather....he proves it.

[DoctorZIn]

I did find a short statement quoted by Reuters...

U.S. Alarmed at Treatment of Iranian Protestors
Sat June 14, 2003 03:14 PM ET
KENNEBUNKPORT, Maine (Reuters) - The United States on Saturday denounced Islamic hard-liners who attacked pro-democracy demonstrators in Iran and called on the government to release those who have been jailed.
"We are alarmed at reports of arrests and provocative actions taken against students by regime forces and call upon the regime to protect the human rights of the students and to release those who have been arrested," the White House said in a statement released in Kennebunkport where President Bush is spending a long weekend.

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=2929626

[DoctorZIn]

I just found this on the whitehouse.gov website:

June 14, 2003

STATEMENT BY THE PRESS SECRETARY

RECENT DEMONSTRATIONS IN IRAN

The United States views with great concern the use of violence against Iranian students peacefully expressing their political views. We are alarmed at reports of arrests and provocative actions taken against students by regime forces, and call upon the regime to protect the human rights of the students and to release those who have been arrested.

Iranians, like all people, have a right to determine their own destiny, and the United States supports their aspirations to live in freedom. It is our hope that the voice of the Iranian people and their aspirations for democracy and the rule of law will be heard.

###

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/06/20030614-1.html

[American in Israel]

If there was ever any doubt that the Hizbulla is an official arm of the Iranian Government, this situation just shot it down.

[cake_crumb]

"If there was ever any doubt that the Hizbulla is an official arm of the Iranian Government, this situation just shot it down"

Nah. The tyrant lovers will treat such circumstantial evidence the way they treat the 'smoking gun' in Iraq.

[LibWhacker]

Are you lost? I'm not just talking about the past.

When did you first hear about this "uprising" in Iran? Be honest. I heard about it when a bunch of drunken Iranian soccer fans were arrested in Teheran. So essentially the hooligans are upset because they can't party! No doubt there are some who really want to be free and I'm sure they were whispering about it long before the soccer incident, but you've got to know they don't have the numbers to make it happen.

A few weeks after the soccer arrests we started to hear all the fiery rhetoric coming from Iran's universities about freedom and democracy. Freedom this, democracy that.

It ain't sincere, my friend. Freedom and democracy are anathema to a muslim, moderate or no. Believing that a muslim wants people to be free is like believing my dog wants grapefruit for dinner.

This generation is for us because they want to party. The next generation isn't because we're the Great Satan. Who cares? They're all muslims and once in power neither faction will lift a finger to put an end to terrorism. One will actively support it while the other will turn a blind eye to it, just as all those hundreds of thousands of freedom-loving Iranians abroad during the hostage crisis went mute. You're dreaming if you think otherwise.

Now a Shah, ruling with an iron fist . . . That's what the Iranians deserve.

[LibWhacker]

Oops, sorry, almost forgot to answer you . . . I do think a scenario like yours is likely to play out eventually; i.e., it's going to take an intervention by U.S. military forces to make a change. But I see no reason to believe a secular democracy could ever work in Iran longterm. I hope I'm wrong (everyone here seems to think so -- so that's a good sign, lol!), but the problem, as always, is islam: There AIN'T NO WAY islam is going to allow a secular democracy to exist in its midst.

[don-o]

If the people are fully informed about the course of events and the plots, they will safeguard their revolution and their system with all their might, and they will bury America's pawns and agents in a single day.

Is that you, Baghdad Bob?

[DoctorZIn]

I knew Baghdad Bob couldn't hide forever....
:)

[Steel Wolf]

It ain't sincere, my friend. Freedom and democracy are anathema to a muslim, moderate or no. Believing that a muslim wants people to be free is like believing my dog wants grapefruit for dinner.

So what's your opposition to secular, reformist student protesters, then? They're not going to abandon Islam overnight, but reducing it from the state power to a private faith is a huge step. If they want to party, fuel that desire. Lapsed muslims are infinitely preferable to fundamentalists.

Once they get their hands on McDonalds, cable modems, and miniskirts, they won't go back. If they want to drink alcohol and watch porn, good for them. Their society is tired of Sharia, and longs to be western and free.

'Being Muslim' is a self afflicted social disorder they're pretty well tired of at the grassroots level, hence the demonstrations. Freedom and strict Islam may be incompatible, but human nature favors freedom, and will invariably win if the choice presents itself.

[jabotinsky]

here is why it is simpler...

unlike iraq, iran is more homogeneous and better educated overall. and no we dont intend to send an army in. what I was proposing is for the US military to bloody the noses of the jihadis. here is a perfect opportunity to put tomohawks (sp?) to use, laser guided missiles (amen), etc etc. the grassroots for a change from theoCRAPic rule to civilized democracy in iran is infinitely more developed than in iraq.

nothing is easy in the ME, it is a treacherous place.

but at the very least, we owe the region and ourselves this duty to reverse a wrong that we (correction: CARTAH - history's greatest monster) helped bring about.

knock off the jihadis in iran, and I have a feeling the butchers in saudi a, gaza and syria will be even more attentive to reason.

[cake_crumb]

"But I see no reason to believe a secular democracy could ever work in Iran longterm."

I don't think you're wrong. Is a secular democracy is achieved, the question will - and should - be : how long until the next revolution brings a new Ayatollah? That's another part of the reason we can't use military intervention in Iran. Along with Carter's destruction of the Shah, their hatred of us during their revolution, US alliance with Iraq in the hopes Iraq would defeat Iran (revenge by proxy in the face of near universal Iraqi and Iranian hatred for us). Combined with Iranian hatred for us, which continues to this day.

Iraqis don't love us either. They may be happy to be free, they welcome us, but they do not love us. They don't even trust us. We're a tool for them to get what they want, nothing more. In general this is the way the entire Arab world sees us. It's a form of arrogance and disdain on the order of the way Old Europe feels about us...and the UN. Now the Iraqis have got what they wanted, and they want us out...especially the Iranian backed tools of the mad mullahs so recently returned from Iranian 'exile' to Iraq.

The assurances coming out of Defense were little more than hype I hope.

I know for a fact the US plans no military aid for student dissidents in Iran unless something happens...hopefully nothing short of massacre, which the UN will be forced to take notice of.

Please no one get me wrong : I don't WANT innocent Iranian kids massacred by their nutzo government...but US interests should be our number one interests. Iran got itself into this, and for now it's in US interests for Iran to get itself out.

We wish them luck, we support their cause, but we're not going in. It would be stupid right now, it won't stop the terrorism, it would weaken our resolve and weaken us militarily. We need to concentrate on securing Iraq, while supporting the insurgants as much as we can.