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Well Howlin, I'd love for you to be right, but you aren't.

I have spent the last twenty-four hours discussing this issue with one individual who disagrees with you completely. And he is an ardent Bush supporter, so I don't know how you can state what you do.

There was another individual I spent three hours discussing this issue with who is also a Bush supporter who stated that I must be a traitor to the US if I backed Likud's policies over Bush's. All this because I advocated Israel defend herself.

I tried to explain that we set our policy, but Israel must set her own. Well I was the biggest traitor the US has ever seen because this simple concept was wrong according to him.

I tried to mention to you in another discussion that if we do not come out and openly advocate Israel's right to exist and defend herself, nobody else will. Sadly the Bush administration states once in a while that Israel has a right to exist, but when terrorist attacks occur, they criticize Israel heavily for responding.

Today this was different. Even if the was a planned strategem for long term effect, it left Israel out there dangeling for years while the UN, the EU, the middle eastern nations, Russia and others condemned it resoundly, while we seemingly felt compelled to remain neutral.

Whatever the reason, I welcome what I percieve to be a change.

You have no idea whether I'm wrong or not; you could be just as wrong as you claim I am. You're talking to people just like I am. Being an ardent Bush supporter has nothing to do with it.

Draw whatever conclusions you need to further your views; just try to stop acting like the rest of us are dopes because we don't see it like you do.

Today this was different. Even if the was a planned strategem for long term effect, it left Israel out there dangeling for years while the UN, the EU, the middle eastern nations, Russia and others condemned it resoundly, while we seemingly felt compelled to remain neutral.

But they haven't been out there dangling since Bush took the WH. Look at what the map looked like in 2000 and look at it today. In 2000 Israel was surrounded by hostile neighbors, today it's Syria who's surrounded. Iraq is out of the picture, Iran is (ahem) otherwise occupied Student Protests. These things don't happen overnight. Remember the pause in Afghanistan? Remember the pause in Iraq? Think of all the things that have taken place to secure Israel lately.

Doughty... since right after the Passover bombing, the President has consistently said that Israel has the right to self defense. He has never faltered in that stance.

The statements that the Gaza attacks "weren't helpful" had more to do with the overwhelming use of force perhaps.

Not you, but some, on these threads want it both ways. They want Israel bound and gagged and dragged, kicking and screaming to Aqaba... and Sharon only going along with the road map because he was forced...and they want Sharon the independent Israeli warrior and the President, finally, finally seeing the light.

I think the Israelis want peace... see the road map (with its strong and immediate emphasis on the destruction of the terrorists) as a way forward. The President has never publically said that Israel had to suffer the body blows. What this Administration has warned the Israelis about was the manner in which they go about getting justice, which I don't have a problem with.