If Secession Was Illegal - then How Come...?

The Patriotist ^ | 2003 | Al Benson, Jr.

[Constitution Day]

BUMP!

[TomServo]

Back at ya, buddy!!

[vaudine]

Must have been an activist court!

The only reason to relive any of this is to educate and enlighten. I find that most opinions from both North and South are formed by osmossis--from the "feel" or "climate"
gleaned from snippets of reading, Hollywood's depictions,
conversations, etc.

While Jeff Davis is much maligned in many circles, he was considered a moderate of his day and his highest passion was reserved for his belief in states-rights. His last speech on the floor of the US Senate, as Sen. from Mississippi, concerned states rights and he received a standing ovation. Both No. and So. had a firm belief in states rights, which has been obliterated by so much fed. govt. control.

A real irony is that Davis was Secretary of War seven years before the War and completely updated the Union Army with the latest guns and equipment. Also, he did not seek to lead the South. His West Point and soldier's background, together with his exp. as Sec. of War and Senator made him about the only possible choice for the South and leading it was a pretty thankless task in many ways.

vaudine

[Kingasaurus]

"It's an academic exercise only. Regardless of whether the states had rights to secession (which can only be implied), the "Union" went to war to prevent it. So, you can say the North was wrong, but it doesn't matter much now, does it?"

That's basically what I was thinking.

Okay, presume the South had a Constitutional right to secede. The minute they do so, they are a foreign country with a foreign government (who fires the first shot, even!), and then the US Congress can legally declare war on them - occupy the land - and bring those states back in once the war is won.

I suppose you could argue they morally shouldn't have done so, but I don't think there are any Constitutional issues involved.

[stainlessbanner]

That's a great point vaudine. Davis was a highly respected senator, but moreso, his politics were moderate. Firebrands such as Rhett, Wigfall, and Yancy led the pack, but found common ground in Davis.

Davis didn't actively seek or campaign for his position, it was a matter of duty; answering the call for service. Those screeds that call him traitor are simply don't know their history, or subscribe to a simplified view of the creation of the Southern Confederacy.

[STONEWALLS]

"Didn't the Civil War end some time ago?"

yes it did, but separatist movements have never gone away in America.....a couple of years ago in Washington,DC petitions of secession were circulated in 2nd Ward....those folks were so disgusted by the DC city government they wanted to pull out and join Maryland....I wonder how many folks who criticize the South are home schoolers?...I'm sure they don't think of themselves as "traitors" to the school system.....they just want to go a different way in peace.

Good luck to all!

Stonewalls

[rcofdayton]

Every state in the Articles of Confederation seceded from that Confederation when they ratified the Constitution. So it was ok to secede from the Confederation but not the new government?

[laotzu]

Thanks for your post. Well written. Deeply felt.

[D1X1E]

I've considered the War in this way. An abused wife, who is no angel herself, chooses to leave her abusive husband. The abusive husband, being stronger than the wife, and after inflicting grievious injury, forces her to return home to continued abuse.

[Kingasaurus]

"I've considered the War in this way. An abused wife, who is no angel herself, chooses to leave her abusive husband. The abusive husband, being stronger than the wife, and after inflicting grievious injury, forces her to return home to continued abuse."

Many Northerners would add the caveat that the husband forces the wife to stay in the house so he can keep her from abusing the kids, which she had been doing contunuously. Buying and selling them, even... ;)

[Tauzero]

"Are we fighting the Civil War again?"

One can always hope.

[annyokie]

Thanks!

[annyokie]

Well said. Thank you.

[Aurelius]

"Many Northerners would add the caveat that the husband forces the wife to stay in the house so he can keep her from abusing the kids, which she had been doing contunuously. Buying and selling them, even... ;)"

A better analogy in this particular case would be that the husband's primary motive in forcing his wife back was to retain control over her paycheck.

[archy]

Are we fighting the Civil War again?

Oh, I reckon that can likely be arranged....

-archy-/-

[Publius6961]

Are we fighting the Civil War again?

History scares ya huh?

Historophobia?

[FairWitness]

The only reason to relive any of this is to educate and enlighten.

Two very good reasons.

[archy]

I suppose you could argue they morally shouldn't have done so, but I don't think there are any Constitutional issues involved.

Except, perhaps in the case of Texas, whose status of prewar statehood was accomplished via particularly legally shaky means, and if not valid, more appropriately should have reflected its status as a seperate nation allied with the Confederacy rather than as a state within it. Accordingly, the postwar occupatrion there and *restoration* of its status as a state of the Union may also rest on a foundation of legal sand.

-archy-/-

[archy]

History scares ya huh?

Historophobia?

Nope, that would be if the affected were afraid of history to such an unreasonable degree as to constitute an illness. Hatred of the subject would be Historiomisophia.

-archy-/-

[jlogajan]

Okay, presume the South had a Constitutional right to secede. The minute they do so, they are a foreign country with a foreign government (who fires the first shot, even!), and then the US Congress can legally declare war on them - occupy the land - and bring those states back in once the war is won.

Yeah, these southern slave holding yahoos want to seceed and then continue to claim Constitutional protection. But by seceeding they become a foreign power no longer covered by the US Constitution, and by attacking US fortifications, they become a hostile foreign power. Because their slavery system was immoral, they are an immoral hostile foreign power.

Then they get their butts whipped, the immoral institution of slavery is immediately overthrown -- and they have been calling the "whaaaambulance" ever since.