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Dell, Hewlett-Packard to Ship Java on PCs
Dow Jones News Service | June 11, 2003 | Don Clark

Posted on 06/11/2003 12:10:36 PM PDT by HAL9000

SAN FRANCISCO -- Sun Microsystems Inc. said Dell Computer Corp. and Hewlett-Packard Co. have agreed to ship Sun's Java software technology on personal computers, a boost to Sun's efforts to popularize the technology.

Sun has been struggling to ensure widespread access among PC users to Java since late 2001, when rival Microsoft Corp. decided to stop shipping Java when it introduced its Windows XP operating system. The issue has figured prominently in an antitrust suit filed by Sun against Microsoft, which was prompted by Microsoft's actions against Java during the late 1990s.

Java includes a programming language and a separate piece of software, called a virtual machine, that lets a PC or another device play a program written in the Java language. Earlier Microsoft operating systems came with a Java virtual machine developed by Microsoft, so PC users had the ability to run Java programs without computer makers having to license software from Sun.

But Sun has been eager to give consumers access to the virtual machine software it developed, which has newer features than Microsoft's version. So Sun has been negotiating with some personal computer makers to include that software with their systems.

In lining up Dell and H-P, the top two PC makers, Sun is claiming big progress. "Consumers will have access to current Java technologies," a Sun spokeswoman said.

Other companies that have agreed to ship the latest Sun virtual machine, Sun said, include Apple Computer Inc., the Linux operating system vendor Red Hat Inc., and Lindows.com, which sells PCs that come with Linux.

Jonathan Schwartz, the Sun executive vice president in charge of software, told reporters at the JavaOne conference in San Francisco that the deals with Dell and H-P were completed in all-night negotiating sessions that ended Wednesday morning. "One was signed at 3 a.m. and one was signed at 9:02," he said.

Some details of the PC makers' plans, including how many of their PC models the companies plan to ship with Java, weren't immediately available. H-P, however, said it would ship Java with PCs as early as the third quarter.

"The agreement we reached is wide-ranging," said James Gosling, the Sun programmer who is Java's principle inventor. "That is an enormous scale of opportunity." Java has long been marketed with a premise that Sun calls "write once, run anywhere."

A Java program, in theory, should be able to run on any machine or operating system that is used along with a virtual machine. Most conventional software, by contrast, is written for a particular operating system.

Microsoft originally licensed Java from Sun in 1995, using Sun's technology as the basis for its own virtual machine. But the two sides began squabbling soon, with Sun contending that Microsoft was modifying its software so that programs written for its virtual machine would only run on Microsoft's Windows operating system.

Microsoft denies wrongdoing. But the allegations featured in three major legal actions: the government's antitrust case against Microsoft, now largely settled; a private suit for breach of contract that Sun filed against Microsoft, which the two companies settled in 2001; and Sun's antitrust suit against Microsoft, which is still pending.

Microsoft has gone back and forth about Java support since the introduction of Windows XP. Though the initial version of the operating system didn't include its Java virtual machine, it later distributed a set of software updates to Windows XP that included the Java software.

In January, a federal judge overseeing Sun's antitrust suit issued a ruling ordering Microsoft to begin shipping the Java virtual machine created by Sun along with Windows XP. Microsoft appealed that order, which is being stayed while an appeals court reviews the matter.

Separately, earlier this year Microsoft told customers that it would begin phasing out any support for its own Java virtual machine. Jim Desler, a Microsoft spokesman, says the move relates to its January 2001 legal settlement Sun, which Microsoft says bars it from making any changes to Sun's underlying Java programming code after next Jan. 2, 2004. As a result, Mr. Desler said, Microsoft can't provide security updates to its virtual machine, leading to its decision to stop supporting the software, though it plans to help customers migrate to alternate solutions.

Mr. Desler added that computer makers, such as H-P and Dell, have always been free to license software for pre-installation on their machines, in addition to Windows.



TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: dell; hewlettpackard; hp; java; microsoft; sun; techindex

1 posted on 06/11/2003 12:10:36 PM PDT by HAL9000
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To: HAL9000; *tech_index; shadowman99; Sparta; freedom9; martin_fierro; PatriotGames; Mathlete; ...
OFFICIAL BUMP(TOPIC)LIST
2 posted on 06/11/2003 12:20:30 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Iran will feel the heat from our Iraq victory!)
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To: HAL9000
Does Microsoft yet "allow" makers such as Dell and HP to ship PCs without Windows pre-installed?

(I know, I know... No one forced the vendors to sign ze papersss.)
3 posted on 06/11/2003 12:43:49 PM PDT by newgeezer (A conservative who conserves -- a true capitalist!)
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To: HAL9000
and Lindows.com, which sells PCs that come with Linux.
Saw a bit on CNBC this morning about Walmart selling $200-300 computers with Lindows on it. Interesting to see two corporate behemoths slug it out.
What's interesting is that most box stores would bow down to pressure from MSFT, but Walmart would sell their collective grandmothers if they can get a price down by $10 in their stores so they aren't going to listen.
4 posted on 06/11/2003 12:50:31 PM PDT by lelio
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To: newgeezer
Sure but Dell tried it and nary sold a one. Face it, there is no demand for Linux on clients. Perhaps servers, but not on clients.
5 posted on 06/11/2003 12:53:03 PM PDT by wireplay
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To: HAL9000
The real question is how much Sun had to pay to make this happen. It's great that now folks can get Sun's crappy JVM installed on their computers. As an owner of 7 Dells here at the casa, I want to be able to opt out of having any software made by Sun on my PCs.
6 posted on 06/11/2003 12:55:44 PM PDT by wireplay
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To: wireplay
"The real question is how much Sun had to pay to make this happen. "

Yep... they are going to make a ton of money giving away their software...

7 posted on 06/11/2003 1:08:48 PM PDT by RS (nc)
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To: HAL9000
Java - write once, run nowhere

the only software that consistently causes my computer to become unstable
8 posted on 06/11/2003 1:24:03 PM PDT by ibme
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To: RS
They make it up on volume.
9 posted on 06/11/2003 1:37:38 PM PDT by Abcdefg
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To: ibme
the only software that consistently causes my computer to become unstable

You must not run anything from Microsoft, including Windows. Either that or you don't run much software at all. Now, if you're running Microsoft's Java VM then you have your explanation right there.

The mantra from Microsoft, in the old days, used to be "DOS isn't done until 1-2-3 won't run." They apply that mindset now to any competitor who they see as a real threat. They just announced that they've bought a small Anti-Virus company. Norton Anti-Virus and McAfee Anti-Virus are clearly both doomed, as well as all the other such packages. MS will simply keep "tweaking" Windows until those other apps no longer work, just as they "improved and extended" the Java VM for Windows, that they were under contract to produce, until it was both unstable and proprietary. It's not a secret. They don't even seriously deny it anymore (I know, we do 7 to 8 digits worth of business with them anually).

10 posted on 06/11/2003 2:08:05 PM PDT by Phsstpok
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To: RS
You can bet mnoney that they had to pay Dell and HP a sizeable chunk of change to have them go along with their scheme. It has nothing to do with Java being free for download.
11 posted on 06/11/2003 2:35:33 PM PDT by wireplay
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To: Phsstpok
Hmmm. Wrong. Microsoft has the most stable products I run. I am having to install eclipse, JBoss, Apache, and Oracle on one of my laptops right now and it is a nightmare. I compare that to VS.NET, SQL Server, Windows, and IIS on my other machine. Microsoft products work well together and get the job done.

Sorry, got to get back to the ongoing nightmare that is open source and java.

12 posted on 06/11/2003 2:37:40 PM PDT by wireplay
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To: wireplay
Hmmm. Wrong. Microsoft has the most stable products I run. I am having to install eclipse, JBoss, Apache, and Oracle on one of my laptops right now and it is a nightmare. I compare that to VS.NET, SQL Server, Windows, and IIS on my other machine. Microsoft products work well together and get the job done.

Well, when you get into real computers and business computing let me know. (no, I'm not bitter, nor cynical (g))

We have a few billion dollars worth of company to keep running. It ain't happening on MS stuff. They don't scale (not to our level). They don't run reliably. They don't work with other systems (intentionally). They don't run, in many cases, period. I'm tired of having Microsoft have me do their alpha testing for them under the guise of "version 1.0," or even 2.0 or 3.0 or x.0! Things that have been basic to enterprise computing for 40 years are unknown or "amazing new concepts" to the microsofties.

I run MS clients with MS apps for compatability with outside firms on my OA applications becuase i have no choice (though I'm once again being asked to evaluate Star Office, 3rd time this century). We run everything else, particularly real business, as far away from MS as is possible as often as possible. We are now in the process of re-re-re-examining Citrix server based implementations of even those OA apps, in order to cut down the millions of dollars we spend on needless work just keeping the damn things running. Maybe that will scale enough for 25% of our user base.

I repeat. I'm not cynical or bitter! If I keep repeating it often enough maybe even I'll believe it (g).

I hope everything continues to run well for you and that you never run into the kind of situations I, and my peers, deal with on a regular basis. I also hope we each win the lottery.

13 posted on 06/11/2003 2:57:51 PM PDT by Phsstpok
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To: wireplay
I am having to install eclipse, JBoss, Apache, and Oracle on one of my laptops right now and it is a nightmare.
What's your problem running Eclipse and Apache on a laptop? I do that all the time and haven't had a single problem. Eclipse is really snappy (that's mostly due to the SWT by IBM) too.
The only issue I've had is lack of resources when running mysql, Apache Cocoon (java based XML publisher), and jetty. But what can you expect with only 256MB of ram? I'm surprised I can even get it to run.
14 posted on 06/11/2003 2:59:16 PM PDT by lelio
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To: Phsstpok
Well, I am an senior enterprise consultant and yes, I work with large data volumes and systems, including Unix and MVS. I am not proposing that MS will displace an IBM mainframe tomorrow but for the vast bulk of computing, it works fine.

Yes, I have been around the block and have seen MS since MS-DOS. Yes, they have had a lot of problems in the past, yes, yes, I agree. However, things are changing and rapidly. MS systems are moving from a departmental level of computing to more enterprise and they run fine. Not for everything, but they are by far the easiest systems to use and manage.

15 posted on 06/11/2003 4:33:30 PM PDT by wireplay
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To: lelio
Try a pure development environment all managed by one provider (MS) and see what a joy it is when everything works the way it is supposed to work. VS.NET is absolutely great and I can turn around data driven websites in a snap.

I am biased. After almost 25 years in the IT arena (including 10 years on MVS), I am happy to work on a platform where things work and are fairly easy to implement and deploy.

16 posted on 06/11/2003 4:36:33 PM PDT by wireplay
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To: wireplay
Sure but Dell tried it and nary sold a one.

IIRC, Dell offered systems with Linux but didn't give you a discount for not buying Windows. Even if you did want to run Linux, you were better off getting Windows for "free" and downloading Linux.

17 posted on 06/11/2003 4:40:57 PM PDT by ThinkDifferent
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To: wireplay
"You can bet mnoney that they had to pay Dell and HP a sizeable chunk of change to have them go along with their scheme"

... Like Dell and HP might not be going along with their scheme just to try to put a little back pressure on Microsoft...

18 posted on 06/11/2003 9:11:25 PM PDT by RS (nc)
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To: RS
"... Like Dell and HP might not be going along with their scheme just to try to put a little back pressure on Microsoft...

... Or like Microsoft might not just "wink wink" at it so they can legitimately abandon their current Java "support"...

19 posted on 06/11/2003 9:27:52 PM PDT by RS (nc)
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To: ThinkDifferent
Not to mention that people using Linux tend to be geeks at hard and want to install the OS themselves. Or they're in a corporate environment that says "Distro X version Y only" etc, etc.
Dell would of been better off if they offered up a service to make a KickStart (like Sun's JumpStart for installing the OS over the network) server install easy. Then you can install the OS on a hundred machines as on one. Dell's out of the installing software business and you're happy as you have what you want.
20 posted on 06/12/2003 9:32:41 AM PDT by lelio
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