Posted on 06/11/2003 3:16:53 AM PDT by JohnHuang2
Romans 2:17-24
17. Now you, if you call yourself aJewChristian; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God;
18. if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law;
19. if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark,
20. an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth--
21. you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal?
22. You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23. You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?
24. As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
But not by me.
He's clearly living immorally, because he's a hypocrite. It is utterly hypocritical to pretend that faggotry is not condemned in the Bible, as are several other sexual practices. Were he an adulterer, a fornicator, or into bestiality, necrophilia or onanism, it would be the same.
Hypocracy, by any reasonable definition of morality, is immoral.
Being a "bishop" in a supposedly Christian church and "gay" are obviously incompatible.
But then I guess that's what Pat's trying to point out.
Here's the deal - while the Episcopal church is a "top down" organization, the national church doesn't have a whole lot of control over individual priests in a diocese.
But the national church DOES have to approve the bishop of a diocese. So when the "reverend"'s name goes up to General Convention in July, it's going to be a watershed event. Either GC approves the man, or it rejects him. If it approves him, that will be a decisive vote on the issue of homosexual clergy and "marriages".
Up until now, GC has managed to avoid the homosexual issue by appointing "study committees" and tabling both motions to approve homosexual priests and motions to declare homosexual conduct sinful. But this is a vote that will HAVE to be taken - they can't leave the bishop in limbo. (hmmmm . . . interesting concept).
I think my husband's "line in the sand" is just about here -- he's been saying for about 3 years that if the General Convention approves homosexual unions we're heading over to the Catholics. I'm a cradle (3rd generation) Episcopalian of the high-and-crazy persuasion, he's a converted Methodist with a Catholic mom, so it won't be too much of a wrench. Although I'm going to miss the music . . .
The next pope may be from Africa, and a schism may occur because African Catholics largely lack the philosophical pollution of the postmodern, materialistic theology affecting Europe and the U.S.
The Holy Spirit will guide the Church. What an interesting time to be alive.
Catholics are doing this stuff, too. They just aren't as in-your-face about it because of appearances and scandal. Hidden or open, I fail to see any difference.
I sure would appreciate some facts/links/authorities on this.
Sure there are gay priests in the Catholic church just like the Episcopal church (I'm thinking of one absolute flamer - a caricature of the femme in "La Cage aux Folles" - who is rector of a metro Atlanta Catholic church.) And I wouldn't be surprised if some local loon has attempted to bless a "marriage". No church -- Catholic, Episcopal, Nazarene, Free Will Baptist, or What's-Happenin'-Now -- has ever been able to prevent sin, misconduct, or bad shepherds on the local level.
The difference is that the Vatican has issued absolute statements that homosexual conduct is intrinsically sinful, while it looks like the highest authority of the Episcopal church in America is about to APPROVE of it.
Certainly the American Catholic church has been allowed way too much rope since Vatican II. I think the policy of allowing the Americans a good deal of leeway has backfired in a serious way. But recent indications such as the recall and forced retirement of certain archbishops show that this is changing and will continue to change.
I checked the LCMS website, and fortunately Atlanta has a lot of LCMS churches. Several are quite large (which is necessary if you're going to have a top notch music program - only way to afford a good organist-choirmaster).
You can't beat Bach, that's for sure, and I already speak pretty fluent German so singing it won't be a problem. Question, though: do Lutherans acknowledge the Real Presence in the Bread and Wine?
I don't have any. There have been reports here on fr from time to time. It's just one of my evil generalizations.
Yes, officially the church condemns homosexuality, but in practice things are far different. My mother's friend was catholic and her granddaughter changed to lesbian, adopted kids, and got a priest to bless their union, probably not during Sunday mass. Anything can be had if you know the right people.
Maybe the catholic church is evil to condemn it. Anybody with half a brain doesn't believe in the bible stories any more, so why should we believe homosexuality is evil? That's where the catholic church got the proscription against homosexuality, from the bible.
In the catholic church you will find a lot of hypocricy and I don't know how you will deal with it. There seem to be a lot of homosexual priests who are sexually active, but due to the secrecy involved, the ordinary person can't know one way or the other. You don't know who they are unless they have gotten busted cruising a park or rest stop on the interstate.
The best any church can do is have a clear policy, and bust anybody caught violating the policy. The problem in the Episcopal church is that they apparently are about to give up and say "what the heck" and approve consecration of a flagrantly homosexual bishop. Of course, at that point the church is doing much WORSE than possible hypocrisy - it's rejecting its basic beliefs.
I DO hope your riff on the Bible and homosexuality is heavy sarcasm?
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