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To: yonif
How would the gangs support themselves?

How many boys who join gangs have fathers?

How many women have babies out of wedlock because the men they sleep with put a higher priority on 'freedom" (i.e. drugs, alcohol, partying) than in working hard marrying and caring for their families?

What is overlooked here is that since drugs became "acceptable" in the 1960s and 1970s, that drug laws are rarely enforced at all. Most of the "drug possession" convictions are plea bargains for other crimes by a court overwhelmed by other crimes. (plea bargains for pushers, plea bargains for DUI, plea bargains for theft, plea bargain for assault of a girlfriend or her kid).

Legalizing drugs will "normalize" the behavior, making it epidemic.

A better argument is the way that Mayor Guilliani cleaned up NYC. the previous mayor argued not to bother with minor crimes, since major crimes were so widespread. But Rudi promoted the idea of "broken windows".

When windows are broken, when graffiti is all over, it sends the message to the neighborhood that disorder is allowed, and that the thugs are in charge. Good people move out, and those who can't move out lock themselves in their houses and apartment, virtual prisoners of the disorder.

Young boys see these rich thugs as role models, perpetuating the problem. After all, to thirteen year old boys with no other role models, a rich pim or pusher is more glamourous than working hard, studying etc. And those boys who actually try to study and work hard are looked on as "sell outs" (the real reason is that the gangs know that these boys are right, and recognize that good students prove by their very life that what they are doing is wrong). Disorder sent the message: you can do anything you want, and you won't be punished. So the sociopaths and their emulators ruled.

Rudi, by promoting arresting "minor" crimes sent a message: this won't be tolorated. Those arrested for minor crimes got the message: get arrested for graffiti, or breaking a window, and you know you'll be punished for breaking into a house, beating up a little old lady for her social security check, or shooting a rival gangmember.

The way out of this is to make drugs unacceptable. Getting high or drunk is unacceptable.

This lady's brother could be cured if there were no drugs. But he also could be cured if he lived in a world where drugs were unacceptable. Right now, the main problem to our druggies in staying sober is their old friends who "visit" and entice them back to taking drugs. (a sober ex user is a threat to users, who know they are doing wrong).

If this lady could not only have the law enforce drug treatment for her brother, but be able to arrest his "friends" when they come back to seduce her brother back to drugs, it would be better. What happens now is that the druggies are back out on the street within hours, able to beat up, shoot, or burn down the house of those who reported them to the cops.

So the good are imprisoned, the good are seduced into ruining their lives, and the children and teens are brought up to think drug using is a fun thing without consequences....

4 posted on 06/11/2003 4:04:45 AM PDT by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: LadyDoc
You provide an excellent argument, however I feel that the genie is already out of the bag. Just like during prohibition, you can try and stop it from the source - but then you just drive it underground and allow the criminals to profit which equals more crime and disrespect for the law.

Humans from the beginning of time have sought to alter their awareness with pleasure seeking substances, and no laws short of the draconian ones like they have in places like Indonesia (death) or Saudi Arabia (lengthy imprisonment and sometimes death)are ever going to totally prevent it. Is that the answer? I don't think so - at least not here in American.

Legally enforced drug rehabilitation (as Bill O'Reilly proposes) for those who get addicted could be the answer, but allowing criminals to profit only spreads the problem to innocent people as noted in the article.
5 posted on 06/11/2003 4:26:16 AM PDT by M. Peach (eschew obsfucation)
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To: LadyDoc
Yep, legalizing alcohol after prohibition sure "normalized" the behavior and made it epidemic, didn't it.

7 posted on 06/11/2003 4:46:20 AM PDT by William Terrell (People can exist without government but government can't exist without people)
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To: LadyDoc
Most of the "drug possession" convictions are plea bargains for other crimes by a court overwhelmed by other crimes.

Provide evidence for your claim.

Legalizing drugs will "normalize" the behavior, making it epidemic.

Was post-Prohibition alcohol use "epidemically" larger than its use during Prohibition?

The way out of this is to make drugs unacceptable. Getting high or drunk is unacceptable.

Is getting drunk on the legal drug alcohol now regarded as acceptable? If not, why would the legality of other drugs make them seem acceptable? If so, do you support banning alcohol to make it unacceptable?

9 posted on 06/11/2003 6:58:58 AM PDT by MrLeRoy (The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. - Jefferson)
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To: LadyDoc
You want a kid to do something, tell him not to do it.
Any middle school kid can get street drugs easier than
he can get tobacco thanks to the recent crackdown on underage
tobacco sales. Who can monitor drug sales? Middle school kids
have nicknames for the various local schools based on the drug
most favored at that school...i.e.: coke central, reefer academy.
People fool themselves with this whole WOD thing. Makes
them think they are doing something, while never accepting
any responsibility.
11 posted on 06/11/2003 7:15:46 AM PDT by bk1000
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To: LadyDoc
I don't agree with you, but I will say you presented your argument well.
13 posted on 06/11/2003 7:35:12 AM PDT by jmc813 (After two years of FReeping, I've finally created a profile page. Check it out!)
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To: LadyDoc
Uh, drugs are already quite unacceptable and illegal with many, many arrests every day.

Do a google search to see the percentage of arrests that arise only from drug violations.

So I don't know what you are advocating the Federales do further in this war

Shoot anyone suspected of possessing marijuana on sight?

16 posted on 06/11/2003 8:07:54 AM PDT by circles
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To: LadyDoc
Getting high or drunk is unacceptable.

[LadyDoc, one second after posting] D'OH! Why doesn't this stupid site have an edit button? I just showed how stupid my position is -- by my own argument, I MUST demand the return of alcohol prohibition!

18 posted on 06/11/2003 9:54:39 AM PDT by steve-b
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To: LadyDoc
Legalizing drugs will "normalize" the behavior, making it epidemic.

...like alchololism? are there more alchololics every year
just because drinking is legal? if heroin was legal would you shoot up. some people would , but i don't think that
there would be a massive increase in the number of heroin
addicts?
22 posted on 06/11/2003 8:31:40 PM PDT by jart (smash statism)
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