Posted on 06/09/2003 10:41:16 PM PDT by wallcrawlr
The libertarians are coming -- maybe to one of the Dakotas, maybe to Montana or Wyoming, maybe even to New Hampshire or Vermont. Maybe. A plan is gaining traction among libertarians nationwide to target the most "freedom living" state with a small population, and start moving there en masse. If all goes as planned, as many as 20,000 of them would be living in that state by the end of the decade, their numbers large enough to start affecting public policy and potentially taking over the state legislature. "We're serious about this," said Jason Sorens, founder of the Free State Project. "It's looking very likely we'll get a lot of people to move. Whether we have political success may be less likely." Sorens, who has a newly minted doctorate in political science from Yale, said that the number of people who have signed on nationwide is approaching 4,000. Once that number gets to 5,000, the target state will be chosen. Once the 20,000 target is reached, the moving vans are supposed to start rolling. Ben Thompson, a handyman from New Ulm, has signed on. "In most states, the constitution and its principles have been turned on their head," he said. "So you end up with a gigantic, bloated government bureaucracy that gobbles up and wastes 50 percent of the taxpayers' money. The Founding Fathers must be turning over in their graves." The only state he's keen on moving to is South Dakota "because I think the political atmosphere would give us a chance to do something. I don't know if this is going to work -- and if I was a betting man, I probably wouldn't bet on it." That's probably prudent, said Lisa Disch, a political scientist from the University of Minnesota who specializes in political third parties. "It seems pretty impractical to me," she said. "Normally you try to take over an existing party. How do you impose discipline on members if you don't know whether they agree with what the leadership wants to accomplish?" Placed in the context of the nation's third-party movements, the Free State Project "seems pretty unprecedented to me," she said. "This sounds truly odd. Almost utopian. Where would you find 20,000 people so committed to politics that they would stage such a takeover? Most people can't be bothered to go to the polls in their own neighborhood." Born in cyberspace The Free State Project is yet another movement born and nurtured almost exclusively in cyberspace. Sorens, 26, a libertarian since his days growing up in Houston, came up with the idea after the 2000 election, when Libertarian Party candidates were blown out nationwide. Careful to make clear that he was not formally affiliating with the party, he floated the idea in an online journal in the summer of 2001. His readers began signing up, and Sorens quickly put up the project's Web site, complete with a mascot: a porcupine. "I thought it was kind of cute, which symbolizes the idea of live and let live, that the government should back off. Porcupines are not aggressive, but you shouldn't mess with them." More specifically, the Free Staters want to see taxes slashed and government scaled back to the bone. Schools would be privatized. Drugs would be legalized. Gun control would be abolished. Federal aid would be spurned. "Government should not go beyond protecting people's rights," Sorens said. But Disch warned that, " 'Leave us alone' is not a viable political strategy. Libertarians want a limiting force, cutting back taxes and dismantling government. And it's simply impossible in this day and age to dismantle all networks of a state's responsibility. You're not going to get rid of the garbage collection." Although many press accounts call the Free Staters' plan a "takeover," Sorens said "that's just the easiest way to describe it. I'd prefer to call it a migration of freedom-loving people." As the number signing up has grown, his Web site has overflowed with data and analysis about the 10 states that are on the list because of their small populations; from smallest to biggest, they are Wyoming, Alaska, North Dakota, Vermont, South Dakota, Delaware, Montana, Idaho, New Hampshire and Maine. All have fewer than 1.5 million residents, which would give the 20,000 Free Staters a potential critical mass in steering state politics. After allying with like-minded voters already living in the state, they would take aim at the state legislature. "We don't intend to go busting into a state and take over," said Tim Condon, a Tampa lawyer who is a member of the project's board of directors. "We'll probably be the sign-wavers, envelope stuffers and precinct walkers for people who are already there and feel the same way about political reforms that we do." Once the Free Staters have settled in, they probably will be most like members of a service club such as the Kiwanis, he said. Warm reception? Although the project has been embraced by the Libertarian Party in several of the target states, some residents are leery, calling the Free Staters members of the political fringe. Some of the media coverage the project has gotten has been downright derisive. "A lot of that condescension comes from people who are already alienated from our ideas," Sorens said. "I think most people in the state we pick are likely to welcome us." Added Condon: "The states under consideration are already more freedom-oriented than other states. . . . Every citizen of the free state will eventually thank heaven that their state was chosen." He's leaning toward picking New Hampshire. South Dakota Free Stater Crystal Bogue is pulling for her home state. "Nothing happens here," she said. "Nothing happens because people like to keep to themselves and take care of their own." For his part, Sorens won't say which state he favors "because I'm trying to stay neutral. There's a dichotomy in the group with a lot strongly western and a lot pro-eastern." At the rate new members are signing up, Sorens said the 5,000 threshold should be reached by October; that's when voting on which of the 10 states becomes the Free State will occur. Sorens hopes the 20,000 level is reached by 2005 but cautioned that that remains a long shot. "I'd say it's 50-50 we'll get to 20,000, but the odds seem to be constantly improving."
(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...
That's the reason for picking a goal state that's not primarily populated with sheeple, just good folks who need an example set for them and a little assistance in getting their own inertia rolling.
When I said the sheeple would support the government, I was talking about nationwide, not just the Free State.
They'll have the public support and the media behind them.
Don't bet the farm on that.
It's a bet I'll be willing to take. They'll use media disinformation and propaganda to build the consensus. Free Staters will probably not have a similiar media voice to counter the establishment media. Most Americans will see it as criminals breaking Federal law and who have taken over a state and are in rebellion against the Federal government.
Oh no. Don't *just* think guns, though that's a part of the package. And don't *just* think of such things within the boundaries of the one state, either. Remember what I wrote in the earlier posts about fighting a guy while he's distracted, as by having his trousers ablaze...and turn about being fair play.
Guerilla warfare. What will that accomplish? The troops overseas will have to be called home to surpress the revolt. Terrorists and other enemies of America will fill in the vacuum created by our sudden departure overseas. Here at home, the damage done, even if Free Staters win, will be catastrophic. Bridges destroyed, crops ruined, roads ruined, Interstate commerce disrupted, millions dead, among other calamities.(worse case scenario) The question that needs to be asked is it worth it?
But I don't want them to refuse lawful orders. And any chief executive who sends US troops against an entire state's groundswell political movement just for opposing his party-line dictates could expect to replace Clinton as the most recently impeached president...or JFK as the last one to have died in office.
As someone who may face this dilemma as a future Marine officer, I hope I'm never ordered to attack my fellow citizens. As for the president who order this: I doubt he'll be impeached. If he's assassinated: What's to stop an opportunistic general from marching his army on Washington?
Remember that if the president uses US military personnel in an illegal action against his political opposition, he not only invites the probability that such actions will unite ALL his opponents, but can find himself facing charges of being a terrorist, as well... and there goes any moral high ground he ever once held:
I'm sure he'll dispose of or discredit the other oppositon before he crushes the Free State. As for the moral high ground: tyrants usually don't care about that.
LMAO - great minds think alike.
1. They have to get 20,000 committed to move to one state. (hardest part)
2. Once they move, they all have to be on the same page in the new state. Will there be a John Hagelin/Pat Buchanan fight?
3. Where in the state will those 20,000 be? What kind of legislature is in the state? In Michigan, approximately 80,000 live in a state rep district, and approx 200,000 in a state senate district. If 20,000 libertarians move to Michigan, they may get one or two districts if they are CONCENTRATED there. In my district, Republicans beat the Dems with 67% and 73%. Libertarians would likely finish 2nd unless the dems team with them which will never happen. They may get a township or commissioner at most. State senate? Only if it's close to a 33/33/33 seat. Congress, Governor, or Senate? Not unless the natives join them.
4. Resistance from the natives. Carpetbaggers aren't liked, especially when they change the system. On the same note, they can't win unless they fireup non-registered voters, get them registered, and voting 3rd party. It's possible, but again not likely. College Towns are probably the best bet for help there. That's where the Greens do best.
I have to respect the Libertarians here. At least they are trying to do something besides bitch. We'll see what happens.
Ahhh! Okay. At least you are laughing and not yelling at me.
LOSERDOPIAN!!!! :)
Aren't Libertarians supposed to be for PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS ?
And, ya can't have MY old stuff , artwork, money, house, nor cars. Try to take 'em and I'll kill you !
Ya know what ... you are really sounding more and more like a retread, dear. :-)
I will second that! :-)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.