Posted on 06/09/2003 5:14:22 AM PDT by rhema
careful what you say about jethro.
maybe you're just listening to the wrong kind of country. ever heard of freakwater? "i got my string around your sweet tooth baby, and i'm getting up to slam the door"
Also ranked among the all-time greats are Tupac Shakur, Nelly, Sean Combs, MC Hammer, Public Enemy, Notorious B.I.G., LL Cool J, Eminem, Dr. Dre, Grandmaster Flash, Salt-N-Pepa, Jay-Z, the Beastie Boys, Afrika Bambaattaa, Lil' Kim and Queen Latifah.
.... Disclaimer: My all-time greats musician list would include the likes of Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin, Mozart, Mendelssohn, Schumann, and Rachmaninoff (and on an especially good day I might also include the Lovin’ Spoonful, Mamas and Papas, Jim Reeves, and Patsy Cline), so I may be coming at this issue from a skewed perspective. :) ....
My Dad used to say that he lived through the best years of this country, and that the main reason for the fact that our best years are behind us is amazing, but deadly, in its simplicity: our people have simply become too lazy to think for themselves. (I think we agree that that is the primary reason the media and the glib leftist politicians can generally have their way with the populace at large. Given enough airtime and newspaper space, they can program the average citizen to prioritize his thoughts toward, and believe, just about anything.
Just look at what they are attempting to do to this administration regarding the supposedly ‘bogus’ Iraq/weapons of mass destruction war issue. I truly believe that there is a definite possibility that, over time, and with sufficient drumbeat repetition by the leftists in the media, on Capitol Hill, and in pundit-dom, this populace might well allow itself to be convinced that a necessary, humanely-fought, brilliantly-devised, and superbly-executed war was anything but. (Hitler advised that ‘effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands’). Their insidious efforts are only beginning to brainwash the public into believing that courageous, visionary leaders who made the necessary decisions, and saw the plan to its triumphant end, are somehow incompetent, devious, or evil. And the drumbeat’s gonna get a whole lot louder. God help us if their power has become so omnipotent, and our minds so obtuse, that they succeed in convincing us that white is black and black is white because it suits their agenda …. yet again.
The success (and despicable ramifications) of rap music is just another example of the programming of sponge-like minds. The young people who have been seduced by the cacophony/violence that is rap have been programmed to embrace it as evidence of their independence from the norm, and rebellion against a supposedly rotten ‘system.’ In this case, the ‘system’ they denigrate includes everything from God, to family, to law enforcement, to womanhood …
. If it were my express intent to "dumb down" an entire generation of American kids so as to leave 'em useless, hopelessly screwed up & thoroughly trashed when I'd finished?? That'd have been precisely the tack I'd have used to accomplish the task, musically .... Landru
I do believe you’ve got their number, as usual, Dan. Wish more people did.
I remember several years ago reading an article by a fellow who was a member of the Young Communist League at Brown University in which he referred to rap music as a ‘cultural weapon.’ I couldn’t have said it any better (probably the first and last time I’ve agreed with a communist). Only he was extolling that fact .... and I (and the two of you) lament it.
Indeed it is, scholar.
Yet, whenever this issue's framed as such it quickly morphs into a racial matter; complete, with all the usual accusations from all the usual suspects.
Funny how that'll work, eh.
...again & again & again.
HA!!
~& I fall to pieces.
See scholar, I told you joanie would easily be able to deal with your love of *opera*. {g}
"My Dad used to say that he lived through the best years of this country, and that the main reason for the fact that our best years are behind us is amazing, but deadly, in its simplicity: our people have simply become too lazy to think for themselves. (I think we agree that that is the primary reason the media and the glib leftist politicians can generally have their way with the populace at large. Given enough airtime and newspaper space, they can program the average citizen to prioritize his thoughts toward, and believe, just about anything."
Your father was absolutely correct, Mrs. f.
Looks as it could be said much of the nation's youngsters may have abdicated their individuality & freedom of thought to the purveyors of *pop* culture for the sake of "fitting in."
~sigh~
That's the "bad news."
The "good news" is the fact they must grow up, sooner or later, & as they do the numbers of himbo & bimbo followers will decrease. (pretty optomistic of me, don'tcha think?? :o) )
Of course concurrent with the alleged abdication we're also -- apparently -- hell bent on killing ourselves with choice, too.
But that's another rant, for another time.
"Just look at what they are attempting to do to this administration regarding the supposedly ‘bogus’ Iraq/weapons of mass destruction war issue."
Yea, & keep in mind there're many folks who feel the Liberal-Socialists & their lapdog mediots have been successfully muzzled, too.
SOS joanie girl, different day.
In fact on that note?
Yesterday I'm listening to talk radio & the host brought up the subject of Clintigula, "The Sink Emporer" and his exploits in Bosnia et al.
Mentioned the fact our troops are still there; &, that well after this nation learned there never was any "threat" as that thing told us there was?
Yet, has anyone heard so much as a peep from the sickening Liberal-Socialists sychopant mediots on *that*?? :o)
Vintage Liberal-Socialist modus operandi, kid; *classic*.
"I truly believe that there is a definite possibility that, over time, and with sufficient drumbeat repetition by the leftists in the media, on Capitol Hill, and in pundit-dom, this populace might well allow itself to be convinced that a necessary, humanely-fought, brilliantly-devised, and superbly-executed war was anything but."
You'd better believe that possibility's very likely, if only based on our memory of recent history.
We're dumb enough, uninformed enough, & gullible enough that anything could happen, these days.
If Clintigula's rape of the nation's culture & his complete, utter trashing of our constitution taught us anything, a'tall?
It'd have to be anything is possible & can happen when the forces of evil put collective minds to it.
"Their insidious efforts are only beginning to brainwash the public into believing that courageous, visionary leaders who made the necessary decisions, and saw the plan to its triumphant end, are somehow incompetent, devious, or evil."
Yup, coming to a theater near you.
"And the drumbeat’s gonna get a whole lot louder."
Why I'm fully expecting to start hearing new *raps* carrying the anti-American theme with this angle any day now, too. Geshhhhh.
My (& at least half the nation's, also) .02 on that particular matter is, I "hired" this POTUS (& his team) to run the nation & take care of her & her citizens security.
All I cared about then -- as now -- was that this POTUS had a good reason to believe the Iraqi leaker/madman was up to no good; insofar, as there being a *possibility* Sadam possessed WMD and/or had aided or abedded terrorists who were bent on harming this nation.
That was, & remains good enough for me.
I couldn't have (possibly) cared less *what* the pathetic, quisling Liberal-Socialist mediots said about the actions of this POTUS.
My thought then remains the same, "Mediots?? Go straight to hell."
Kinda looking like there're an awful lot of people who believe the same thing, too.
The Liberal-Socialist mediots *infesting* our nation's information system long ago lost any credibility -- whatsoever -- they might've enjoyed.
Their *comuppance* will be meted out, in due time.
In fact, they're already reaping their just deserts in the form of severely tanking viewership; so, whoever's bankrolling the media's Liberal-Socialists to carry out *the* agenda had better keep an eye on their purse.
'Cuz the Liberal-Socialist clowns they've hired to do their bidding are in the process of sucking 'em dry as sure as God made little green apples.
"God help us if their power has become so omnipotent, and our minds so obtuse, that they succeed in convincing us that white is black and black is white because it suits their agenda …. yet again."
They gotta get rid of Capitalism first, joanie; before, they'll ever even begin to entertain any thoughts of declaring themselves the victors & begin implementing their schemes.
...& that still remains just a *dream*.
But I must agree with you on one thing, though. You said, "Sorry if I sound bored, I'm busy talking to grown-ups right now." You got the "sorry" part right.
BTW, I'm still waiting for my slap.
Second, you were the one who gave the "tough guy" stance initially. No one had given any statement(s) towards violence among posters as of yet. But in post #14 you wrote, "Young blacks need a strong slap across the face--and soon."
You made that statement, correct? And I called you on it, correct? But now I'm the "tough guy?"
Alrighty then...
While you are correct that my statement was my opinion, if you don't think that many blacks in my generation are in trouble, then I think you need to reassess your facts.
Well, obviously you like to attempt to state how others think with insufficient evidence. No matter. I take what people say literally most of the time. Since there was insufficient evidence that you were metaphorically speaking, I took it literally and called you on it.
Reassess my facts? Surely you jest.
ROTC, huh? Put ya kneez in tha breeze. Then we'll converse further.
"Insufficient evidence"? Like your responses to my post, I was going off what you were saying. So, unless you are a mindreader, you're guilty of your own charge.
Yeah, I'm ROTC. So you're 82nd? I'd love to know what branch of the Army you are...
I was Eighty-Deuce. Like I said, kneez in tha breeze. Then we'll talk.
We see the media constantly determining public opinion. I believe it was Hitler's propaganda minister--I'm too tired to remember his name--that said (paraphrasing) that "if you repeat something often enough, people will believe it."
That is exactly what is happening in the media today. The Liberal-Socialist media tells the public that conservatives are trying to starve the senior citizens, the poor, etc., etc., and those who can't or won't try to analyze or think for themselves swallow the bilge.
Lowlife Rappers Get Some LoveI'll bump your thread on that one.
Dan, for all intents and purposes, capitalism is already dead in America. And, since this republic has been the bastion of that socio-economic concept, its chances of survival globally are pretty slim as well.
One of the main underpinnings of capitalism is the citizen’s ability to reap economic benefit proportional to his willingness to expend work and strive for personal excellence. Ever since FDR’s New Deal (and other seeds that were planted even before the thirties), an ever-increasing focus of the government of this republic has been the insidious redistribution of wealth. And the Bush administration, with its continuation of the previous administrations’ entitlement spending mentality, is no exception. Any society so entrenched in redistributing wealth, and allowing government to ‘care for’ one segment of its citizenry on the backs of another segment, is discouraging the work ethic, saving, investing, and human excellence in general. Such an atmosphere is toxic -- deadly -- for capitalist enterprise.
Add to that the fact that the so-called ‘free market’ is anymore simply an anachronism. None of the ‘markets’ in this republic, or in which this republic takes part, is ‘free’ anymore. There are powerful behind-the-scenes manipulators calling the shots in virtually every economic/business venue – from oppressive laws which over-regulate and unfairly tax trade, commerce and small business .... to gross manipulation of the stock and commodities markets .... to over-regulation of the currency upon which the whole economic system is based.
The result is that the average American cannot invest in a free market economy because covert forces dictate nearly every facet of the movement of that economy. The average American cannot count on keeping the fruits of his labor, because his government believes it knows better how to use those fruits (and, the majority of those uses involve doling them out to someone else whom the government has deemed is more ‘deserving’ of them). Nor can he choose an investment itinerary with a certainty that what he ‘sees’ is actually what he is ‘getting.’
Economic laissez-faire is the core of the successful capitalist experiment. Any form of state control of private business (prices, production practices, and distribution) has no place in a capitalist society. And manipulative, unseen forces have no right to determine the behavior of investment opportunities in a capitalist society either.
‘The moral justification for capitalism lies in the fact that it is the only system consonant with man's rational nature, that it protects man's survival qua man, and that its ruling principle is: justice’ .... Ayn Rand
It’s too bad that social and economic justice have fallen from grace in America. The rest of our foundation is crumbling as a result.
~ joanie 
It's easy to get depressed by watching TV and reading the mass media, but there is hope. Consider that tax revenues are down sharply across the board.
Sure, this is partly due to the poor economy, but it might as well be a good, healthy tax revolt. The government (kicking and screaming) will have to learn to get along with less, and the people will find their lives are better when they keep more of what they earn. They may like the situation so much that they demand to keep the parasites at bay for a long time.
Secondly, capitalism is growing by leaps and bounds in many areas of the world. People are producing, buying, and selling without government permission. (The government calls this "the underground economy".)
I agree that here in the U.S., the government no longer protects one's right to make a living as it was formed to do. So people are slipping out from under it, both here and abroad. Which has the beneficial effect of cutting off it's blood supply. Let's keep it up.
Many FReepers (including me) bemoan the fact that U.S. companies are moving overseas. They accuse them of "being only interested in profit". I have to ask them, "Why else would you work ten-twelve hours per day, seven days a week, as well as risk your life savings if not to make a profit?"
As much as anything else, companies are moving offshore in self-defense. This, too, will have an educational effect on the public. The people will learn (the hard way) that they need big business much more than big business needs them. Can't find a cushy job sitting in an air conditioned office anymore? Go out and mow some lawns for a couple of years; That will give you time to think a few things through that you apparently missed while growing up.
Thanks to the Internet and fora like Free Republic, the media no longer have a monolopy on "explaining" these issues to the public. There is hope.
Maybe, maybe not joanie.
If one were to take an instantaneous snapshot one would be compelled to agree with you; however, capitalism is continually changing, morphing & that's precisely what it should do in order to meet the demands of the market.
So "static" captialism isn't; therefore, instantaneous takes aren't very accurate, a'tall.
Now I'd agree that what we're *seeing* is -- at best -- a horribily distorted version of capitalism.
At least it is when compared to what it'd started out as here, 250 years ago.
"One of the main underpinnings of capitalism is the citizen’s ability to reap economic benefit proportional to his willingness to expend work and strive for personal excellence."
Yea.
That's what we'd been taught, alright; but, there was always a cold reality behind the teachings, too.
At least from my POV there was, having been brought up in a "Labor" home?
"Ever since FDR’s New Deal (and other seeds that were planted even before the thirties), an ever-increasing focus of the government of this republic has been the insidious redistribution of wealth."
You're absolutely correct; however, consider the times.
Nation's in the depth of a depression & people are getting *real* impatient.
The American Communist Party is beginning to look mighty damned good to an awful lot of people in the 30s, joanie.
We often despise FDR for what he did; but, I've always wondered about what might've been his real motive.
Wondered if maybe FDR did what he had in order to save capitalism; while, at the same time?
He unwittingly sets the stage for the biggest threat capitalism would ever face many years later down the line.
Compound FDR's moves with the politicians who've always relied solely on "buying votes" via give-aways -- they had nothing in the way of "leadership" to offer -- & things could only get worse, quicker.
It's kinda obvious (now) those political leeches understood human nature all too well; while, the general public had no clue the freebies they were accepting were the equivalent of ingesting a slow working poison.
Pols haven't changed their mo one iota, either; be they "R" *or* "D."
The deep kimchee we're all standing in today has been acculmulating for a very long time; &, as such is quite complicated for a guy (like me) to fully comprehend let alone understand & those crooked pols??
They know *that*, too.
"And the Bush administration, with its continuation of the previous administrations’ entitlement spending mentality, is no exception. Any society so entrenched in redistributing wealth, and allowing government to ‘care for’ one segment of its citizenry on the backs of another segment, is discouraging the work ethic, saving, investing, and human excellence in general."
True & beautifully put, joanie-f.
Still, the *addiction* this nation suffers was not one that could be suddenly shut off overnight with the election of one man, either.
Had Dubya come into office -- the "Perfect Conservative" -- & begun shutting down programs, departments enmasse and generally doing precisely what many of the right's more radical elements would like to have seen??
He'd have thrust the nation into such a state of chaos as to destroy her -- easily -- within one years time.
IF the man's truly intent on making things "right"??
He must work ever-so-slow which'll be in everyone's best interest. Think about it.
You know damned well -- as does any reasonably informed citizen -- the percentage of people now employed by local, state & federal governments has to be approaching at least 50% of the nation's entire workforce; or, soon will be.
With those kinds of numbers (traditionally supporting the 'Rats who helped create the leviathon) don't you find it nothing short of a miracle this POTUS was elected, to begin with??
I sure do.
Buttttt even so, Dubya -- a "conservative" -- was able to barely get 50% of the voting public's support by not scaring the crap out of 50% of those gov workers & right into the arms of the waiting Liberal-Socialists, too; and, consider we're not eeeevennnn talking about the numbers of people in the private sector who rely on government monies to provide all the infrastructure things we all enjoy.
For example our military, transportation, medical et al ad infinitum ad nauseum??
This society must have those things in order to function in an orderly fashion; whether, we like it or not, joanie.
"Such an atmosphere is toxic -- deadly -- for capitalist enterprise."
Yes, for a state of "pure" capitalism I'd agree it's very bad, indeed; but, you said yourself our captialism isn't "pure."
That means we're seeing (I am, anyway) a hybred -- of sorts -- of capitalism which must be in response to the strain that's been put upon the original concept; therein, lies the Wild Card, too.
Your friend, the honorable "snopercod" makes several excellent points which parallel what I'm trying to say, here.
"Add to that the fact that the so-called ‘free market’ is anymore simply an anachronism. None of the ‘markets’ in this republic, or in which this republic takes part, is ‘free’ anymore. There are powerful behind-the-scenes manipulators calling the shots in virtually every economic/business venue – from oppressive laws which over-regulate and unfairly tax trade, commerce and small business...to gross manipulation of the stock and commodities markets...to over-regulation of the currency upon which the whole economic system is based."
Whaaaaat, & this is -- somehow -- "new" to our Republic??
I needn't remind (one of the most brillinat minds this board's ever known) *you* of all people the nation was literally "built" on the backs of immigrant peoples.
Peoples who came here to pursue their version of the "American Dream" & in turn were screwed every way from Sunday.
Many, many of those people didn't make it, joanie.
Still their broken dreams, dashed hopes, sorrows weren't for naught; because, in almost every case their children were able to realize most of everything they didn't.
Ideally, their children (you & I?) would've remembered the suffering & sacrifices their parents made, for them, & *that's* -- to me -- "what" the promise of America was all about.
Otherwise, we'd look a lot more like pre-1900 europe, today, I'd think. Wouldn't you agree?
We'd be a people with virtually no hope, whatsoever; and, that couldn't be further from the truth *or* reality.
Now if our children or our children's children failed to experience the sacrifice of our parents?
Was it because we failed to adaquately teach them & if we did, then perhaps "the state" recognized that condition & they stepped in to fill the void??
There're solid reasons *how* we got to where we are, today; and, those reasons are there for anyone who's willing to look.
"The result is that the average American cannot invest in a free market economy because covert forces dictate nearly every facet of the movement of that economy."
Yup, it's a *constant* struggle to keep the finacial dogs at bay; so, if "We The People" aren't going to police ourselves -- & not our neighbors -- then *who's* going to do the job of keeping human nature [read: greed] in check??
The man you most admire -- & rightfully so -- deregulated many things in our capitalistic society, y'know; which, in hindsight only served to open a "flood gate" to crooks of every stripe to flourish.
Those crooks took his dream of a freer markplace unencumbered by a hopeless federal beaucracy & trashed it, completely.
RR was a *dreamer* who put an awful lot of faith in our citizens while those crooks took complete advantage.
How c/would you reconcile that?
"The average American cannot count on keeping the fruits of his labor, because his government believes it knows better how to use those fruits (and, the majority of those uses involve doling them out to someone else whom the government has deemed is more ‘deserving’ of them)."
Right again, the situation does stink to high Heaven & I agree totally.
So, there's a lot of work to be done before things are even close to where they should be & I'm going thank God for that too, for my own reason(s).
"Nor can he choose an investment itinerary with a certainty that what he ‘sees’ is actually what he is ‘getting.’"
"Buyer beware" was something you & I were both taught -- through several grades in public school no less -- which essentially said we were to be very VERY careful while participating in the free marketplace of our capitalist society, or else.
Can't speak for you; but, to me that meant I'm on my own & if I get taken in spite of the warning(s)??
It'd in all likelihood be due to my own greed, stupidity, &/or ignorance et al.
I know -- for a fact -- your father taught you the exact same thing my father taught me; &, he/they did so when we were both a very young age, "There is no such thing as a 'Free Lunch'."
Think that old saying's used much, anymore?
I don't.
Consequently there's an "underground economy" of people running amoke out there who're looking for idiots & suckers; who, once bilked squeel like stuck pigs over the result of their own flawed character.
Boy does that kind of "human interest" *story* ever make great copy in 2003 for the anti-American, anti-capitalist Liberal-Socialist quisling mediots too, eh?
*Perfect* for the agenda-driven idiots who're writing the bilge *and* for the agenda-recieving morons swallowing it.
Isn't guarding against thievery in the marketplace -- any kind of marketplace; nevermind, a capitalist one -- what instruments like "insurance" and "contracts" were all about; which, if that were the case?
Then measures for dealing with "risk" may be traced back to biblical times; and, are not exclusive to the USA nor a manifestation of our form of goverment.
At least not nearly as much as *some* people would have us all believe?
"Economic laissez-faire is the core of the successful capitalist experiment. Any form of state control of private business (prices, production practices, and distribution) has no place in a capitalist society. And manipulative, unseen forces have no right to determine the behavior of investment opportunities in a capitalist society either."
Well what in the hell can I say to that, girl??
You know you're correct & I know you're correct, so??
You're shooting fish in a barrel, now. {g}
Be that as it may let me add *one* word to what you wrote, OK??
Here...
"Economic laissez-faire is the core of the successful capitalist experiment. Any form of state control of private business (prices, production practices, and distribution) has no place in a capitalist society. V.S. And manipulative, unseen forces have no right to determine the behavior of investment opportunities in a capitalist society either."
That's what it's always been all about.
"It’s too bad that social and economic justice have fallen from grace in America. The rest of our foundation is crumbling as a result."
The foundation may very well be crumbling, joanie; but, that condition has very little -- if anything -- to do with "justice." Social, economic or otherwise.
It has everything to do with you, me, & our neighbors.
If the thing's going to collapse than the speed at which she falls will be in direct proportion to what we have become as a society, culture & nation.
No more, no less.
I may very well be wrong on each & every counterpoint I've tried to make which would be "OK" with me; as, it's only my illusion you've heard.
Joanie, "God blesses the child that's got his own."
...even if it's only an illusion.
Where is this happening, John? Bush’s so-called tax cuts have been accompanied by a dizzying increase in entitlement spending. The former is dwarfed by the continued growth of state interference in the lives of the citizens, and confiscation and redistribution of what should rightfully be theirs alone.
Federal spending is skyrocketing – and the spending would be justified if it were defense or infrastructure related. But, as usual, it is not. The bulk of it is focused on social engineering.
Just look at the latest obscene example: the low-income child tax credit. A supposedly fiscally conservative administration, and republican (lower case intentional) House is promoting increasing the scope of the welfare state. Parents who are too poor to pay taxes are going to be paid a tax bonus for simply having children. One would think that a fiscally conservative administration would be lobbying to do away with such taxes (the earned income tax, as well, falls into this category), rather than adding more such redistribution obscenities to the tax code.
It appears that, more and more, the labels ‘republican’ and ‘democrat’ define a power base rather than an ideology. I’ve stopped aligning myself with the republican party, and now simply call myself a libertarian-leaning conservative. That still (at least for now) defines a philosophy, rather than a group of people whose focus is on retaining power at the expense of retaining/reclaiming this republic’s inheritance.
I agree with you that a taxpayer revolt (of some sort) would prove to be a rude awakening for the entrenched powers that be, but if you or I organized one and said to our fellow tax revolutionaries, ‘Jump off this (symbolic) cliff with me,’ we’d find ourselves sprawled at the bottom, alone. Americans do a lot of complaining, but when it comes to writing, or marching, or protesting (in any form), sheep-dom in this country is more than skin deep.
~ joanie
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