Vatican Secretary of State speaks frankly on Israel, Palestine, and Islam

National Catholic Reporter ^ | 6/6/2003 | John L. Allen

[Courier]

"Shit happens, particularly if the penalty for losing is death for you, your family, your society, and your culture."

Bull Shite.

If that was a penalty there would be no Arabs today in Israel. Whole Arab villages which preferred to stay put and sit out the war are today intact and prosperous in Israel. And they are the most free Arabs anywhere on Earth.

Only Christians and Jews would suffer a penalty of death for losing to Moslems.

[ApesForEvolution]

Knock and the door shall open. Search and you will find. Religion is and always will be what man can use to justify itself. A relationship with the One who created all and will judge the living and the dead is the only answer. Do you know this One?

[Torie]

Some were bounced Courier in some places. Of course, not all were, in all places. You may not like it, but that is the way it was. Deal with it, and then move on.

[Torie]

A relationship with the One who created all and will judge the living and the dead is the only answer. Do you know this One?

Jim Jones of Jamestown fame in Guinea?

[sinkspur]

An in depth analyzation of both religions, Islam and Catholicism, reveal striking similarities. Bogus, man made religion has saved no one and never will.

You're a religious bigot, AFE. You think by bashing somebody else's faith, you're attracting people to your point of view.

You're wrong as hell.

Discuss. Stop preaching.

[Courier]

You made it a general statement about the Arab society in total.

In every war, militaries maneuvers certain civilian populations where they must.

In no instance, in known history, are there still refugees five decades later.

It is the Arabs who should have moved on 55 years ago.

[Torie]

Read it all again. My little verbal excursion about survival in every meaning of the word was actually about the Jews.

[ApesForEvolution]

I'm stating truth and truth often hurts.

Man made religions based in anything and everything but the truth of the Word of God deserve a good wash and rinse when their heads are reared.

[ApesForEvolution]

No. He made up yet another bogus religion which was extremely deceitful and dangerous.

[ninenot]

I dunno.

Reading the article, my thought was that the Vat was interested in the welfare of the Catholics/Christians over there--who happen to be Palestinian.

Remember, it was an "illegal" revolution which established Israel in the first place. Of course, it's been Arafat who has kept the Palestinians in camps--and has blamed the Jews for it, to keep the fires hot.

I learned last night from the co-pinger (above) that Rabbi Schneerson, the Lubavitch, was very clear on this point: the orthodox Jews believe that the Messiah will come and bring them to the promised land. They do NOT regard Ben-Gurion as the Messiah.

That means, of course, that to Schneerson, Israel's existence is not necessarily 'legitimate.'

Something to think about before you swallow the NCR's propaganda that the Church is totally in the dark and anti-Semitic.

[sinkspur]

Something to think about before you swallow the NCR's propaganda that the Church is totally in the dark and anti-Semitic.

NCR, like Cardinal Angelo Sodano, takes the side of the Palestinians, almost without fail.

John Allen is quoting Sodano in this piece; I don't see his opinion anywhere. Sodano espousing the right of return is the death knell of the Israeli state.

I don't need any single media source to tell me that the Vatican ain't exactly on the side of the Israelis in the current conflict; the story is in every media source!

[ninenot]

You DO recall that FDR would not take the "Ship of Fools" sent here (inter alia) from Germany?

And that FDR did his level best to totally ignore the camps in Germany?

And that meant that Pius XII's comments were delivered at the very REAL risk that the Axis would win the war, as the USA was not committed?

[ninenot]

Actually, Hitler DID run around gassing millions of Catholics. About 2 million of his camp-victims were Catholics--priests, nuns, laity.

[ninenot]

OK, so NCR and Sodano agree that the Palestinians need a homeland. That used to be called Jordan, or Trans-Jordan, right?

If Schneerson is right, it's a moot point. That's why it's something to think about.

[sinkspur]

That means, of course, that to Schneerson, Israel's existence is not necessarily 'legitimate.'

Tell that to the Israelis. I thought Israel was a semi-secular state?

What are the Israelis to do, then? Just let Arafat and his crowd have it, while they wait for the coming of the Messiah?

Schneerson's talking through his yarmulke.

[Michael2001]

I'd take a Catholic over a Muslim any day of the week. I also don't think that most American Catholic necessarily agree with the Vatican on this issue.

[ApesForEvolution]

I agree with both of those assessments 100%.

[ApesForEvolution]

#78 and 79: excellent and salient points FS.