Two U.S. Soldiers Die in Kosovo Apache Helicopter Crash

reuters.com ^ | Sun June 8, 2003 07:16 AM ET | Reuters

[Destro]

Two U.S. Soldiers Die in Kosovo Helicopter Crash

Sun June 8, 2003 07:16 AM ET

PRISTINA, Serbia and Montenegro (Reuters) - Two U.S. peacekeeping soldiers were killed Sunday when their AH 64 helicopter crashed in Kosovo, the U.S. military said. The cause of the crash was being investigated, but a U.S. officer said there was no sign it was due to hostile action.

"There is no notification of a hostile intent," Major Hilary Luton, spokesman for the U.S. sector in Kosovo, said. He could not give the precise site of the accident and said names of the casualties were being withheld until families were informed. The dead pilots were serving at the Bondsteel military camp, the largest military base in Kosovo, located some 25 miles south of the provincial capital, Pristina.

Kosovo, a province of Serbia, was taken over by United Nations peacekeepers in June 1999, when NATO ended bombing to drive out Serb forces and end repression of majority ethnic Albanians.

[Destro]

"There is no notification of a hostile intent"..........Did they expect a faxed statement?

[Destro]

bump

[Hoplite]

Did they expect a faxed statement?

Why don't you head over to an office, scribble something about an Afghan Stinger being responsible, send it off and you can take care of that problem, eh Destro?

Add something about the KLA Summer offensive, just for old time's sake.

[Destro]

The UCK are your pals--why don't you tell them where to send their faxes- - -this "downing" comes in the same week as a "bombing campaign" in both Kosovo and FYROM as well as a jihad style terror attack that killed three aimed at ethnic cleansing of Serbs in that part of Kosovo.

[grania]

Albania Has Chemical Arms Posted by Destro On 06/03/2003 9:12 PM EDT with 22 comments armscontrol.org ^ | June 2003 | Kerry Boyd Arms Control Today June 2003 Albania Has Chemical Arms; CWC Review Conference Meets Kerry Boyd While the United States invaded Iraq and sent its troops around that country on a so-far fruitless search for chemical and biological weapons, a European state quietly announced that it has chemical weapons. During a meeting of states belonging to the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) in mid-March, Albania stated that it possesses chemical weapons. A month later, 110 of the 151 CWC member states gathered to review the treaty, which bans all chemical weapons and requires their destruction, and agreed on several steps to enhance...

--------------

This is from another post. You ask "what are we doing there?" Well, FR was the main place where people were cyber-screaming that the NATO/US bombing was supporting the KLA, which is a terrorist group bent on taking over Kosovo, which is part of Serbia. GWB seemed to be on our side on that one.

I don't know how the fight on terror can be considered all-out unless they find a way to put the genie back in the box. That is, send the Albanians back to Albania and realize that Milosevic was doing what he had to do to fight a nasty terrorist situation.

I wouldn't mind our troops being there if it was to re-establish Serbian control.

[Hoplite]

The UCK are not my pals, Destro - I just don't attribute actions or schemes to them regardless of evidence to the contrary in order to push a personal agenda.

Ever get the feeling that what you desire and reality are growing further and further apart, regardless of the quantity of posts you inflict upon this forum?

Too bad Pericles is gone - he knew how to influence policy in Washington - huh? (Har!)

[Destro]

A post worthy of Pericles: Bosnian Muslim death threats made against Pope in Croatia

[Criminal Number 18F]

Uh, they say, "crashed," not, "shot down."

Bit of wishful thinking on your part, I'm afraid. Copters crash with depressing regularity.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[Destro]

I did not imply anything--I found the wording of the press release interesting. Secondly, what are tank killer Apache's doing flying around in Kosovo?

[BlackVeil]

found the wording of the press release interesting

So did I. And I continue to believe that the Balkans is a damned dangerous place.

[leadpenny]

Secondly, what are tank killer Apache's doing flying around in Kosovo?

Fascinating question.

[Michael81Dus]

Sorry to hear that. Seems as if the civilized world loses more lives of soldiers by accidents than by hostile fire.

[lavaroise]

Milosevitch and the UCK are a typical hostage and hostage taker set up in which we fell. To blame us to try to take the hostage out when the hostage was in full extortion scheme with the Serbs is really low. For all I care, the murderers of that region are very real and the extortion scheme did work. Plenty of Serb and Albanian mafya in Europe these days.

[Tommyjo]

"Secondly, what are tank killer Apache's doing flying around in Kosovo?"

United Arab Emirates also fly Apache's in Kosovo. Italians operate A129 Mangusta and the Russians operate the Mi-24 Hind all as part of KFOR. You might as well ask why do KFOR troops have anti-tank weapons at their disposal or why there are Main Battle Tanks operated by KFOR.

[Seselj]

You might as well ask why do KFOR troops have anti-tank weapons at their disposal or why there are Main Battle Tanks operated by KFOR.

Actually, that is a good question. Why would peacekeepers need MBT's? I could understand them having heavy tanks and such while the Milosevic government was in place, but now that a pro-west government is running Serbia why does KFOR still regard the Serbian military as their number one threat, when it's painfully clear that their only threat comes from small lightly armed groups of terrorists? KFOR appears to be too well armed for a peacekeeping force but not armed well enough to resist an invasion from Serbia. The type of job they need to do now doesn't involve fighting against a real military, but defending people and buildings from terrorists, etc.

[Tommyjo]

On the MBT side I was still thinking of the force structure during the first two years. KFOR underwent a re-structure at the end of 2002.

http://www.nato.int/kfor/chronicle/2002/chronicle_16/06.htm


I"n response to NATO Supreme Allied Commander Europe, Gen. Joseph W. Ralston's request for an assessment of force structures and needed changes, COMKFOR proposed to merge four of the brigades into two:
"We have proposed to re-organize our current brigade structure, which has been the same for three years, from five brigade headquarters to three brigade headquarters," said Lt. Gen. Valentin.

The goal of the reorganization is to tackle more effectively new challenges now that the absence of an external threat means that KFOR no longer needs heavy equipment such as tanks and artillery.

HQ KFOR has been working on this project throughout the year."

[ehoxha]

despite all the baksheesh given to the KLA, they still seem to be taking pot shots at our guys.

[Burkeman1]

Secondly, what are tank killer Apache's doing flying around in Kosovo?

We have Apaches in Kosovo because they back up our patrols on the ground - that is when we actually leave our fortresses and actually do patrol. When we do so- we do so in nothing less than than platoon strength in armored vehicles. The Apaches provide cover. This sort of "peace keeping" keeps our casualties due to hostile fire to almost zero but it is totally ineffective in keeping any sort of peace save that brokered with the local "freedom fighters" and criminal warlords. It would be as if the NYPD only left their precincts in caravans of 5 police cars with a swat team to back them up to fight street crime.

[mark502inf]

There are patrols of all types; aerial with Apaches & Scout helos, armored, HMMWV, and dismounted; from squad to platoon size. Point security & observation posts sometimes conducted at the team level (3-4 soldiers). Troops sometimes inserted or retrieved via Blackhawk helicopter. Given the size of the area, type of terrain, & population, there is insufficient strength to provide adequate security for the inhabitants plus secure the borders and aggressively hunt down bad guys. It would be unprofessional and an unnecessary risk not to have some type of reaction force in case of a problem so, besides reconaissance and occasions when they directly cover KFOR troops, Apaches or OH58D armed scout helos are often on tap for that task; as well as ground elements.

All indications at this time are that the Apache crash was an accident. Guys, do not let your disdain for the Albanians cause you to suspend common sense. There is no good reason for the Albanians to inflict casualties on KFOR and potentially spark a major reaction. Even during the ethnic Albanian insurgency in FYROM, when US/KFOR trooops interdicted UCK on the Kosovo/FYROM border, the UCK normally ran away or surrendered--they rarely fought and when captured, stated that they were trying to avoid confrontations with KFOR troops.