Robbed ex-cop kills suspect

Detroit Free Press ^ | 6/6/03 | Ben Schmitt and Cecil Angel

[LibKill]

I thought citizens with ccw permits could not enter a bar while carrying a gun. In Texas, that is the law as I understand it (obligatory disclamer, I AM NOT A LAWYER, and I may be wrong).

While I am not a big fan of the 'COPS ARE GOD-TO HELL WITH YOU SERFS' philosophy, this cop performed a valuable public service.

I only wish he had killed all three of the scum who robbed him.

While I'm wishing, I also wish that citizens would get the same consideration under the law.

I also wish rainwater was beer, I wish that we all had wings, BUT WE DON'T!

[Squantos]

Knew a detective that carried a 1911A1 w/ 3 spare magazines, an ASP baton with the surefire light on it and same rig as this in the small of his back next to his cuff case.

I suspect he had a "weak side" small auto in his pocket and a ankle rig also when he was working.

Stay Safe

[Travis McGee]

I wonder if after he sat down and said "Miller Time" the beer poured like a fountain from the hole in his belly?

That's the mental image I have.

[eno_]

While I am not a big fan of the 'COPS ARE GOD-TO HELL WITH YOU SERFS' philosophy, this cop performed a valuable public service.

There's the thing, as you point out:

You would not be treated the same as a cop, or retired cop, had you done the same.

Nor at a traffic stop.

Nor in extent you could shield your family from public databases.

Nor in your gun rights.

Etc.

Cops should either accept the same limited rights as other citizens, or advocate other citizens get their rights and priviledges, too.

[Henrietta]

"A fleeing violent felon is fair game even in the blue zone of Seattle."

No, this applies only to cops, not to ordinary citizens. This guy is an EX cop. Important difference.

And to say a fleeing felon is "fair game" is an exaggeration; the officer can only fire if he reasonably believes that the fleeing felon poses an immediate and substantial threat to others.

But, as a practical matter, a cop doesn't make this sort of reasoned judgment. He'll just say something like, "The suspect was making furtive movements toward his waistband, so I shot him," or "I thought I saw a gun, so I shot him."

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

Of course the Grand Jury weighs everything against what a "Reasonable person would assume/do". We had a Jeweler beaten and robbed here last year and a passerby shot one of the clowns in the car as they were driving away. No Billed because the Perps beat the Jeweler with a hammer and were armed with a firearm as they fled the violent felony.

This guy was stopping them from getting around the corner and shooting someone else.

Cop or no cop he (ex cop actually) he did the right thing morally and legally.

What most likely happened was they shot him, he pulled his weapon and they then decided to try to run as he was pumping rounds down range. Just because they turn their backs as your shooting doesn't mean they are not a threat anymore. A person running away can easily turn their body and throw rounds back at you.

This is NOT a case of a cop getting away with breaking the law. You could make a case that in some jurisdictions an average citizen would be immorally prosecuted just to scare the general citizenry into not defending themselves. NY City being the most recent 2 examples.

This guy did right and no charges against him should be filed. If you think the avg. Joe would have been charged than the problem is with the prosecutors office not the Police or LEOs.

[Henrietta]

Good points. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[eno_]

If you think the avg. Joe would have been charged than the problem is with the prosecutors office not the Police or LEOs.

There is a problem with that: Police do NOT advocate that all citizens are treated as police are treated. Police didn't get treated differently by accident.

[Frank_2001]

The gun-control people will classify this as "the handgun-related death of a child"/sarcasm off
(I believe they consider anyone under 21 a "child" for their misleading statistics)

[Chemist_Geek]

thought citizens with ccw permits could not enter a bar while carrying a gun.

I haven't heard of any such restrictions from the many places where CCWs have gone into effect. Lots of people get robbed leaving bars. I know I did.

Sorry to hear about that. In the State of Michigan, there are a number of statutory Criminal Empowerment Zones (CEZs); they are listed here. Until 1 July 2003, any business or establishment licensed to sell alcohol for consumption on-premises is a CEZ; after 1 July, only those which make more than 50% of their revenue from such sales will be CEZes.

The Legislature seems to have chosen to limit licensed concealed carry in ares which may have either high tempers, large numbers of innocents downrange, or both.

It probably wouldn't be a good idea to get drunk while concealing but I don't know if even this is illegal providing you don't brandish your weapon without justification.

It would be an exceptionally bad idea. That position is very dangerous not just to any person who might get shot, but, for us all as the gun-grabbers will use any incident of irresponsibility against all of our rights to keep and bear arms.