Come on. You know as well as I do, that if any evidence was presented claiming a young earth age, it would be discounted outright becuase it may reference scripture.
I can list several sites that have information regarding a young earth and God manufacture of everything. You will counter with other information and discount what I have given you. Vicious circle.
Some science is irrefutable. You are a smart guy, so you know what I mean; areas of physics, chemistry, etc. that can be replicated time and again. Then we have grey areas which don't fit so neatly into into proven "fact."
The irrefutable science does not contradict the Bible. The stuff that goes into the grey area does. More often than not.
I don't think any one of the people who hit these forums is evil because of their beliefs in evolution, earth age, etc. And I hope that no one else thinks so. If they do, they need to reexamine theirselves and whether they truly are a Christian.
I do enjoy posting on these threads and sometimes even poking a little fun, but it is a lost cause for both parties involved. Didn't take me long to realize that.
I will say this though. There are for and against presenters that are just downright awful; condescending and disrespectful of the others beliefs. What do you do though?
Anyways, just wanted to chime in with my 2 cents (if it is worth that...probably just set myself up for a good response).
You all have a good day, and whatever side of the debate you're on, don't get frustrated, don't get cross (jokes are okay), and don't belitte ones beliefs. That just ruins the presenters case either way.
Gotta go paint.
No, I do not "know" that, because it isn't true.
What *is* true is that if nothing *but* scripture is presented as "evidence", we will point out that that's not actual evidence, it's just what some writer at one point has committed to a page, and the original source is debatable. The point is that there should be some *physical* evidence that the Earth arose in 6 days (or whatever), if indeed it did.
Dataman was taking issue with the claim that creationists fail to provide physical evidence for their beliefs, and I was asking him (or anyone) to pony up that evidence if they felt the claim was inaccurate.
I can list several sites that have information regarding a young earth and God manufacture of everything. You will counter with other information and discount what I have given you. Vicious circle.
No, it's not a vicious circle. The evidence from both sides can be evaluated to determine if it is accurate, and whether it necessarily supports the points it is being offered in support of. Science is not simply a matter of who can list more specialists or make more arguments, but on whether the evidence and arguments given stand up to all the challenges that can be thrown at them. Putting it mildly, the young-earth creationist arguments do not. But maybe you'll be able to come up with one that's not triviallly flawed for a change. Feel free to show us what you consider one of your *best* pieces of evidence and/or arguments. That's what it's all about, putting one's arguments and beliefs to the test. In a single sentence, science is all about doing reality checks.
Some science is irrefutable. You are a smart guy, so you know what I mean; areas of physics, chemistry, etc. that can be replicated time and again. Then we have grey areas which don't fit so neatly into into proven "fact." The irrefutable science does not contradict the Bible. The stuff that goes into the grey area does. More often than not.
A lot of the irrefutable science does, actually, at least a literal reading of the Bible. But generally literalists deal with that by redefining any hard science which they feel contradicts their reading of the Bible as being "grey area" because they *can* refute it (no matter how poorly), often by simply refusing to believe and refusing to accept where the evidence leads. It's possible to argue away anything if you choose not to believe it, and in fact there are truly people who still cling to a flat-earth belief, for example.
But you're getting off on a tangent. I'm not here to "contradict" anything in the Bible. But I will point out where someone claims to be objectively looking at the evidence, yet resists obvious conclusions just because those conclusions would contradict their pre-existing beliefs on the matter (from whatever source).
If you want to believe something -- anything -- fine, but be careful when claiming that the belief is "supported by the evidence" (in a scientific sense) if indeed it isn't, or that opposing positions are not, if indeed they are.
I don't think any one of the people who hit these forums is evil because of their beliefs in evolution, earth age, etc. And I hope that no one else thinks so.
Some do, unfortunately.
If they do, they need to reexamine theirselves and whether they truly are a Christian.
That thought has crossed my mind.
I do enjoy posting on these threads and sometimes even poking a little fun, but it is a lost cause for both parties involved. Didn't take me long to realize that.
It's not entirely a lost cause. Although it doesn't happen on a daily basis, there are occasional "converts" as a result of watching these discussions over time. Talk.origins, for example, keeps a list of the people who have admitted to changing their minds due to the discussions there.
And hopefully we all learn at least *something*, even if it doesn't lead to a total change of position.
I will say this though. There are for and against presenters that are just downright awful; condescending and disrespectful of the others beliefs. What do you do though?
Good question. Given the nature of the discussion, people are going to be riled up on all sides. I have nothing against honest pot-shots if someone truly thinks that someone else is saying something silly/stupid/whatever. The problem arises when either someone is doing nothing but flinging insults in an intentional attempt to disrupt the more civil discussions, and/or constantly arguing against a charicature of the "other side" instead of what participants here are actually saying or actually believe.
Anyways, just wanted to chime in with my 2 cents (if it is worth that...probably just set myself up for a good response).
Thanks for being more reflective than many. :-)
You all have a good day, and whatever side of the debate you're on, don't get frustrated, don't get cross (jokes are okay), and don't belitte ones beliefs. That just ruins the presenters case either way.
Although I may sometimes stumble, I try to restrict myself to belittling people for how badly they're belittling my beliefs. And lord knows there's enough material *there* to keep me busy.
Gotta go paint.
I don't envy you. My wife wants to repaint the whole inside of the house soon.