Banned missile programme found in Iraq

The Associated Press ^ | 6/4/03

[LdSentinal]

LONDON (AFP) - US and British experts have discovered that Iraq was developing a banned missile, capable of reaching Israel and other parts of the Middle East, the Times reported, quoting "senior government sources".

The right-of-centre newspaper said it understood British Prime Minister Tony Blair , who has called for patience in the search for Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction, has been told that rocket motors for the missiles have been found.

Sources told the paper that in the past few weeks weapons experts discovered that the Abu Ghraib military base near Baghdad was developing a weapon with a range of about 960 kilometres (600 miles).

Under limits set by the UN Security Council, Iraq was allowed to missiles with a range of up to 150 kilometres only, The Times said.

Blair, under growing pressure over allegations his office exaggerated intelligence reports to make Saddam Hussein's regime appear more menacing, has hinted that further evidence of Baghdad's secret programme has begun to emerge but has yet to be made public.

However, Whitehall sources told The Times: "What we need to find is firm evidence of a chemical weapons programme, because much emphasis was placed on the chemical threat. We need to discover why Saddam did not use chemical weapons against coalition forces."

A powerful parliamentary committee decided late Tuesday to probe Blair's decision to go to war in Iraq, amid claims the government had embellished intelligence on weapons of mass destruction to justify the conflict.

The left-wing Daily Mirror tabloid reported Wednesday that troops hunting for Saddam's weapons of mass destruction had searched 87 "prime sites" in Iraq, but found nothing.

The paper, which opposed the US-led war, said that a 100-strong team of British military specialists would join a new American-led hunt for weapons evidence involving 1,400 personnel belonging to the Iraqi Survey Group after the apparent failure of the current search.

[gubamyster]

Al Samoud was a moot point as the Iraqi's had already stated that if war was inevitable it would stop it's destruction programme.

OK, I stand corrected on the SCUDs. I hadn't heard the correction after initial reports that SCUDs were fired into Kuwait.

However, I don’t believe the Al Samoud missiles are a moot point. According to resolution 1441 Saddam was not to have any banned weapons. And then once it was discovered he did have the banned weapons, he was to destroy them. It’s like being “a little bit pregnant”. Either you have banned weapons or you do not.

Remember we went in to prevent Saddam from acquiring WMD or the capability to deliver WMD. It seems we were pretty successful in that goal. Perhaps had he used WMD on our troops or a neighboring country or his own people, you would have been more satisfied?

[alnick]

Lots of burning questions out there.Our intel and military knew where everything else was. Why the Hell did they miss one small detail like WMD? If WMD's were distroyed, why didn;t Saddam offer proof and save himself of an invasion?

I have a theory about that. It's just a theory, mind you. I think that the WMD were moved, hidden, and/or destroyed at the very last minute. I think that if they were moved or hidden, it was with the idea that he would survive the war and retrieve his weapons.

If they were destroyed, and I think that some were, I believe that it was because Saddam knew that the left would try to harm President Bush, as they are doing now, by pretending that they believe that he lied in order to drag us into an unjust war. If he couldn't harm Bush militarily, he hoped to harm him politically.

[gubamyster]

But now it seems that some of you would be OK if he was as shifty as Clinton.

Some of us are more patient in the search for WMD, that will inevitably be found.

[colorado tanker]

We must give the inspectors time to do their job. :)

[colorado tanker]

The right of centre newspaper???

Really. The London Times is one of the most respected newspapers in the world, way more credible than our NY Slimes. This is a tip that the AP writer is working an agenda.

[activationproducts]

I never questioned their existence. I think we will find them. I am simply asserting that at a rocket is not WMD.

[activationproducts]

Unless it has already been delivered.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Without a rocket a WMD is hard to use. A missile isn't a sufficient condition for a WMD but it certainly is a necessary condition for most.

[Lee'sGhost]

OK, I totally believe that there are/were WMD. Perhaps they were all moved to Iran, whatever. And I totally support Dubya. The world owes him, as far as I'm concerned.

So, here's my beef. Why was the intelligence before the war so clear and detailed, yet there was apparently NO intel re what was done with the WMD? The thing that keeps nagging me is that if the intel was so good, why didn't it have a bid on that aspect as well. Same intel agencies. Same spooks. On the one hand we have flashing neon signs say "WMD here." On the other, a black hole.

[activationproducts]

The delivery mechanism is part of the system but it is not enough evidence to say that the complete system exists.

I have envelopes in my desk. Does that mean I am the guy sending anthrax letters? Of course not. That is all I am trying to illustrate.

[activationproducts]

The delivery mechanism is part of the system but it is not enough evidence to say that the complete system exists.

I have envelopes in my desk. Does that mean I am the guy sending anthrax letters? Of course not. That is all I am trying to illustrate.

[Mo1]

Wasn't that nice of AP? Wonder how many left-wing papers the wire service IDs? And how often..?

Well I wouldn't hold my breathe waiting for it

[Tommyjo]

The Iraqi's were legally allowed to possess short-range ballistic missiles to a specified range-limit. They were allowed to have them purely for defensive capability. These included the legal Al Samoud. The Al Samoud 2 was a development which was found to exceed the limit by a small fraction. We are not talking here about SCUD range. The Iraqi SCUDs range variants went from 300 to nearly 600km. The Al Samoud 2 for example didn't have the range to strike Israel. The tests conducted were on Al Samoud 2s without warheads. Fitted with warheads they would have an operational range of about 180km. The slight range excess was discovered by the UN inspectors but in no way shape or form did this capability extend to the range that the SCUD possessed. In military terms a 30km range excess was insignificant.

[Tommyjo]

"The sanctions froze the size, Sadam made the Al Saud II just wide enough to double mount the russian rocket motors."

Absolute bunkum! You are referring to the Al Samoud 2. This used an SA-2 Guideline SAM motor. There was just enough space to fit one engine let alone two. Absolute nonsense about "double-wide" Samoud 2 variants. Study images of the Al Samoud 2.

[justshutupandtakeit]

There is little to fear from WMD without missles to deliver them.

[flamefront]

Grampa Dave - good link on posting #40.

Those watching this news have seen this story evolve from first an embargoed CNN report of the 400 mile distant camp Doha receiving an incoming missile from Iraq during the takeover on March 27th. Patriot missile air defense stopped the attack. The report was released May 29th.

That report was preceded by a UK Telegraph story on May 25th about Britain finds Iraq's 'smoking gun': a top-secret missile which mentions

The rocket motor was to be built at the Abu Ghraib military base [same as this thread's story], the main fuselage at al-Waziriyah and the navigation system at al-Taji. "We had finished the research stage and entered the development stage," said a senior Iraqi engineer who worked at the MIC and is now co-operating with British officials.

It seems to have gone beyond development and into testing.

[kevao]

BTW, when did missiles become WMDs?

When they are fitted with chemical or biological warheads maybe?

[HardStarboard]

>>>There is little to fear from WMD without missles to deliver them. <<<

I take it therefore you are entirely complacent about the millions of containers entering the country without inspection.