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To: sourcery
This tactic has always struck me as being extraordinarily immature. If you don't want to support them, don't make them!

"Lower than manhood are these: To rut with a woman when he already has a wife, and to abandon the children of his body." --Orson Scott Card
2 posted on 05/31/2003 2:50:03 PM PDT by ChemistCat
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To: ChemistCat
Fathering a child certainly creates a responsibility--but morally speaking, it is not not unlimited. The issue here is whether or not the amount of support set by the system is reasonable--and whether or not it remains so as things change.

No one forces a father to provide some fixed-dollar level of support to his children while he remains with the mother. But fathers who lose custody of their children (regardless of fault or reason) are told by the system how many dollars per month they must provide. The evidence that the amounts set by the system is in many cases far beyond reason is quite compelling. The situation as it exists makes fathering children a rather risky proposition.
4 posted on 05/31/2003 3:04:57 PM PDT by sourcery (The Evil Party thinks their opponents are stupid. The Stupid Party thinks their opponents are evil.)
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To: ChemistCat
If you don't want to support them, don't make them!

Hey Einstein, it had nothing to do with not wanting to support the child. It had to do with the fundamental fairness and equity. The current system is inherently flawed. Fathers are forced to do things monetarily after divorce, that they aren't required to do while still married. You call that fair? Well, maybe if you live in North Korea or China, but not in the USA.

For example, a married father still living in the house has a choice whether or not to help contribute to, or pay in full, college tuition. However, once booted out of the house, the courts MANDATE the father pay a huge amount for tuition.

5 posted on 05/31/2003 3:08:34 PM PDT by Go Gordon
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To: ChemistCat
. If you don't want to support them, don't make them!

What a simplistic mindset. You do know that non-custodial 'Moms' are about 5 times more likely to be deadbeats than non-custodial 'Dads'.

Family Law needs an overhaul.

11 posted on 05/31/2003 3:34:16 PM PDT by StatesEnemy
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To: ChemistCat
You know, while I agree that catastrophic injury or health problems qualify as extenuating circumstances and should be treated as such, they are the exception and not the rule. The bigger problem are these irresponsible punks that go around like Johnny Appleseed impregnating women without the slightest concern that the woman, assuming she has the child and keeps it, will have to somehow cough up the money to meet the child's needs for his or her entire childhood. While I also believe it is irresponsible of the woman to put herself in that position, the fact is that what's done is done. It takes two to make a baby, and both should be responsible for caring for it. I don't necessarily believe that it should be a government issue, but until we get back to instilling some values in kids instead of worrying about removing any reference to God from textbooks somebody has to make sure these kids are fed, clothed and educated. It isn't their fault their parents are idiots.
27 posted on 05/31/2003 3:56:24 PM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: ChemistCat
""Lower than manhood are these: To rut with a woman when he already has a wife, and to abandon the children of his body." --Orson Scott Card "

I agree with Card; unfortunately, child support enforcement rarely has anything to do with a man abandoning anyone. The fact is that in America about 52 percent of marriages end up in divorce, and in about 90% of these cases the wife files for divorce, and the man gets the boot. This is hardly abandonment, eh? I did a personal study of this phenomenon for a Father's Group in Massaschuetts. I spent days and days pouring over divorce files in "Family Court" in a large city to obtain statistics. Results: 90% of the divorces were filed by the wife, (no surprise there, they are the ones who lose nothing but what the want to lose, the husband. Women are almost always awarded the house, the kids, the furnishings, the bank account, and a sizeable chunk of ex-hubby's income - typically a third of his gross in my state). Conversely, the men lose their family, their home, and 2/3rds of their income, (the govt. gets 1/3, the ex gets the other). Men were awared custody of their children in only 10% of the cases I examined, and usually this was due to gross behavior by the wife, such as drug addiction or severe neglect of the children.

I'm all for supporting the children, to whatever degree possible, after a divorce. But my experience working in a Father's Group was that the men not only did not abandon their children, they had to go to extraordinary measures just to get to see them. In our State, the State Department of Revenue now collects child support from the guys, (I say 'guys' because so few women are ever ordered to pay child support they are irrelevent to any serious discussion). The Dept. of Revenue is chartered as a tax collection beurocracy of the state, how they got involved in child support payments is interesting. While I understand there are good-for-nothing bums who get women pregnant and then leave them high and dry, I have known many a professional man who was compeltely broken down, financially and emotionally, after divorce. Most men are decent human beings, and they want to be a part of their children's lives. And most men have to fight like hell to make this happen; many get discouraged at the incredible difficulty and just give up. Though most fathers try hard to keep their children in their lives, the Courts grant only the customary bi-weekly "visitation" of their children. (fyi, "visitation" was a word first used in prisons when a family member visited an inmate). The system is corrupt, unfair, and utterly biased against men. I hear about the guys who skip out on the kids, but all the divorced men I've known have had to literally go broke with attorney's fees just trying to keep their children in their lives.

29 posted on 05/31/2003 3:58:44 PM PDT by TheCrusader
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To: ChemistCat
"Lower than manhood are these: To rut with a woman when he already has a wife, and to abandon the children of his body." --Orson Scott Card"

Orson Scott Card is a Mormon, a religion with a rich history of bigamy. I'm wondering where he got his morals? Judging from the Titles of some of Orson Card's books, he hardly seems like a philosopher I'd whose ways I'd chose to follow. "How To Write Science Fiction and Fantasy" ???

36 posted on 05/31/2003 4:08:09 PM PDT by TheCrusader
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To: ChemistCat
If you don't want to support them, don't make them!

So you agree that all the government forces in this case are right? Oh, BTW, your boot lace isn't tied.
143 posted on 06/01/2003 12:46:07 AM PDT by jwh_Denver
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To: ChemistCat
I paid for mine, you pay for yours!
171 posted on 06/01/2003 4:20:05 PM PDT by texasredneck
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