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To: wideawake
I think I've lost the thread of the argument somewhere. Forgive me.

Me too, trying to work and carry on an interesting conversation over FR is tough.

Somehow we have a big disagreement over the scripturality of Marianism. You suggest that through "inference" we can move from a small handfull of verses to the many writings of popes and DeMontforts out there. I disagree and suggest that with the same kind of "inference" we could have picked the donkey He rode in on or John the Baptist or the bronze snake that Moses made to save the people and invent all the same kinds of things about it. It's been done before and it is a human failing. I mention the bronze snake for a specific reason because there is an example of an object that was given for a positive reason that later became an idol. This is what we have in the RCC with Mary.

135 posted on 05/30/2003 5:19:20 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrissssstian)
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To: biblewonk
You suggest that through "inference" we can move from a small handfull of verses to the many writings of popes and DeMontforts out there.

Well, not precisely. Nothing written by a private individual like DeMontfort is binding on any Catholic and only a small percentage of papal pronouncements are. In point of fact, the Pope convened a panel of theologians some years ago to put every authoritative pronouncement by every Pope and every Council and Synod into a single volume in order to make theologians lives' easier. It is called the Enchirdion Symbolorum (which translates to Dogma Manual). It's about 600 pages long but, if you take account of the enormous amount of repetition involved, it's about 150-200 pages of teaching - much shorter, say, than Calvin's Institutes. Pretty much everything in it is repeated over again in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

But I'd like to get back to one point: the Catholic Church does not teach that grace is earned. If Scripture is absolutely clear on two points, it is these: (1) That salvation is a free gift of God's grace which we cannot ever deserve or earn and (2) God will reward or punish us on the Day of Judgment according to our deeds.

Catholic teaching on grace and justification reconciles the implied contradiction without doing violence to either truth.

137 posted on 05/30/2003 6:05:54 AM PDT by wideawake (Support our troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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