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To: biblewonk
You suggest that through "inference" we can move from a small handfull of verses to the many writings of popes and DeMontforts out there.

Well, not precisely. Nothing written by a private individual like DeMontfort is binding on any Catholic and only a small percentage of papal pronouncements are. In point of fact, the Pope convened a panel of theologians some years ago to put every authoritative pronouncement by every Pope and every Council and Synod into a single volume in order to make theologians lives' easier. It is called the Enchirdion Symbolorum (which translates to Dogma Manual). It's about 600 pages long but, if you take account of the enormous amount of repetition involved, it's about 150-200 pages of teaching - much shorter, say, than Calvin's Institutes. Pretty much everything in it is repeated over again in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

But I'd like to get back to one point: the Catholic Church does not teach that grace is earned. If Scripture is absolutely clear on two points, it is these: (1) That salvation is a free gift of God's grace which we cannot ever deserve or earn and (2) God will reward or punish us on the Day of Judgment according to our deeds.

Catholic teaching on grace and justification reconciles the implied contradiction without doing violence to either truth.

137 posted on 05/30/2003 6:05:54 AM PDT by wideawake (Support our troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: wideawake
Well, not precisely. Nothing written by a private individual like DeMontfort is binding on any Catholic and only a small percentage of papal pronouncements are. In point of fact, the Pope convened a panel of theologians some years ago to put every authoritative pronouncement by every Pope and every Council and Synod into a single volume in order to make theologians lives' easier. It is called the Enchirdion Symbolorum (which translates to Dogma Manual). It's about 600 pages long but, if you take account of the enormous amount of repetition involved, it's about 150-200 pages of teaching - much shorter, say, than Calvin's Institutes. Pretty much everything in it is repeated over again in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

"binding": DeMontforts writings and not "official" RC doctrine yet there are popes who make pilgramages to his grave. In other words an individual RC is perfectly free and quite encourged to believe every word written by DeMontfort through "inference". The more Marian RC's are encouraged so the less Marian ones have the "non binding" out. It has been stated that all RC's are one and non RC's are shattered and yet through this type of doctrinal inference the RC is able to build his own eclectic set of beliefs.

But I'd like to get back to one point: the Catholic Church does not teach that grace is earned. If Scripture is absolutely clear on two points, it is these: (1) That salvation is a free gift of God's grace which we cannot ever deserve or earn and (2) God will reward or punish us on the Day of Judgment according to our deeds.

Ok then let me ask this. What is the relationship between communion and grace? So far you are defining a whole different grace than the previous person I spoke to. I'm wondering how to go back a thousand posts and do a search on biblewonk and grace. Then I could show you what I learned. It sure sounds like a case of two different RC's on a different sheet of music, not that that is so bad, you will get very different views of predestination from my tiny church of about 40 families.

And thanks for not taking offense to every little thing I say. This mode of communication is extremely good at starting fights and that is not my intention.

138 posted on 05/30/2003 6:21:27 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrissssstian)
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