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Outsourcing hits US techies hard
Times of India ^ | MAY 26, 2003 | CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

Posted on 05/26/2003 3:51:30 PM PDT by Lessismore

WASHINGTON: On a recent April afternoon in Silicon Valley, moments after he was told he had been laid off from his computer programming job at a Bank of America training centre, Kevin Flanagan stepped into the parking lot and shot himself dead.

Some of America's technology workers, who like Flanagan have also had to collect pink slips over the last several months, think they know why Flanagan took his life: Bank of America not only outsourced his job to India, but forced him to train Indian workers to do the job he had to give up.

In the weeks since his death, the techies have used the incident as fuel to fire a campaign against outsourcing to India, an issue that now seems poised to become a major sticking point between the two countries. Several US states are already considering legislation to ban or limit outsourcing.

Bank of America is one of several major US corporations – General Electric, Microsoft, Intel are among others - under scrutiny for outsourcing jobs to India. The Bank created what is called a "Global Delivery centre" in 2000 to identify projects that could be sent offshore.

Since then it has signed agreements with Infosys and Tata Consulting Services (TCS) to provide solutions and services.

In an e-mail exchange with this correspondent, Kevin's father Tom Flanagan said "a significant reason for which my son took his life was indeed as a result of his job being outsourced."

"Did he blame India for his job loss? No. He blamed the "system." He couldn't understand why Americans are losing jobs. Rather I should say he understood it economically, but not emotionally," Flanagan said.

Bank officials, who did not return calls relating to Flanagan's death, have said in the past that the deal with Indian companies would effect no more than 5 per cent of the bank's 21,000 employees, or about 1,100 jobs, in its technology and operations division.

According to some surveys, the US has lost at least 800,000 jobs in the past year and some 3.3 million jobs will move overseas over the next few years because of outsourcing, mostly to India.

The Bank has also acknowledged that it had asked local workers to train foreigners because such knowledge transfer was essential. According to Tom Flanagan, his son was "totally disgusted" with the fact that he and his fellow-workers had to train foreigners to do his job so they could take over. "That sir is a travesty," he said in one e-mail.

US tech workers are challenging the corporate world's claim that it is outsourcing work to improve bottomlines and efficiency. Some analysts have also pointed out that US corporations were being forced to tighten up by the same people who are moaning about outsourcing, and who, heavily invested in the stock market, demand better performance.

But on one website that discussed the Flanagan case, a tech worker pointed out that data processing consumed only a small per cent of revenues and was hardly a drain on the Bank's profit.

"(It is) a prosperous bank which has let greed trump any sense of patriotism or social responsibility," he fumed.


TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; michaeldobbs
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To: Rebelbase
I know several programmers who are making a good living at their trade, and with the same company for the past 9 years. The article is slanted.
41 posted on 05/26/2003 4:35:03 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: Lessismore
Not to get into the suicide thing but any large corporation that outsources jobs that it can handle in house is stupid and the CIO that thought of it is criminally negligent.

If you are one of the biggest banks in the country are you really going to outsource projects that are mission critical and involve huge transactions of money to some shmoe in India or God knows where?

Talk about the Mother Of All Backdoors.

BTW - I hear that the trend in IT is away from outsourcing.

As for the guy that sucked the gun, well, I don't approve but I can understand. Especially if I had to train my replacement.

42 posted on 05/26/2003 4:35:34 PM PDT by WhiteKnuckles
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To: Pukin Dog
Nope, I only flew jets for two decades, while managing to save enough money to not be worried about finding a job anytime soon.

Two decades in the Navy. How about private sector? How would you do if they flooded us with Indian pilots? They have close to a billion people over there. I am sure there would be a sufficient number of pilots who are as qualified as you. How would you be saving money then? No, I would say I am just clueless.

I would say so, too. I specially enjoyed how you suggested that he should go over your house to show you how to turn your pc on. Cool.

Have a nice day.

You, too. Unless you have other plans.

43 posted on 05/26/2003 4:35:51 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: Pukin Dog
Most of us are living the "Cost of keeping up with the Joneses" rather than the cost of living.

For me it was keeping up my child support payments. Try telling the friend of the court you want to pay less so you can take a pay cut, and they throw you in jail! This whole thread is based on a very complicated situation, and yes, suicide is not the answer.

44 posted on 05/26/2003 4:35:53 PM PDT by Ace's Dad
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To: BrooklynGOP
Are you, by any chance, in a union????
45 posted on 05/26/2003 4:36:19 PM PDT by Texaggie79 (pimps up, hoes down!)
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To: lonestar
In all seriousness, I would tell a person coming out of high school, who was techically inclined and had good mechanical and computer skills, to skip traditional engineering and do this:

Go to Mercedes Benz and train to be one of their automotive technicians, and get a job at the dealership out of high school, even if you start out prepping cars, and move up the ladder. You would be amazed at what these tecnicians and service managers earn, but stick with the high end dealerships: Mercedes, BMW, etc.
46 posted on 05/26/2003 4:36:44 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: Lessismore
I remember when it was manufacturing jobs that were heading overseas. As a consumer, it seemed like a good deal to get better quality goods (most of the time) for less money. As an American, it was painful to watch. Same thing happening today, only the collars are white, not blue.
47 posted on 05/26/2003 4:38:10 PM PDT by leadpencil1
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To: Pukin Dog
they are not "out working" or "out thinking" the americans, they are working for 1/10th the wages, with a much lower living standard. At 1/10th the wages, the american worker has no chance of competing.
48 posted on 05/26/2003 4:38:25 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
I know several programmers who are making a good living at their trade, and with the same company for the past 9 years. The article is slanted.

Several? I live in NYC, and practically everyone I know got laid off from the IT jobs. Those who didn't are considered to be *very* lucky. Unless you are in the industry you don't realize how bad it became. I lost my job in 2001 and it took me over a year to find the job I have today. I was looking for any job that paid $10 or better, too.

49 posted on 05/26/2003 4:38:45 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: Incorrigible
Now his software company is outsourcing its development to India. He would like to stay, and I would like someone with his skills to stay here as well. None-the-less, he and his family are on their way back to Bombay next month where he'll work for the outsourcing company.

Here's the kicker, at least the guy you refer to has the option to go back to his home country, where he'll pick up a job probably making more (by local standards) than if he just stayed in India. For the U.S. born tech, no such option exists. If tech jobs dry up in this country, his options are limited.

Another thing I heard (maybe someone else knows more) is that in India, higher education is subsudized and people are generously rewarded for going into the technical fields.

50 posted on 05/26/2003 4:39:28 PM PDT by YankeeReb
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To: Political Junkie Too
Amen!
51 posted on 05/26/2003 4:40:22 PM PDT by WhiteKnuckles (This comment outsourced to afghanistan!)
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To: Lessismore
Dude, I've been to India over 30 times, maybe in some a$$ backwards parts its like this, but seriousley, your whole post is living in the past. These techies hardly care or follow the caste system, I've never met a hindu who really cared for it one way or another, your more likely to see that kind of discrimination here in the US, then you are over there.

Also, to note, most of the untouchables have either converted to another religion, or simply wound up lying about there caste long long ago to the point no one really knows whos what anymore. If you can find somone who claims to be from the untouchable caste, good luck and more power to you.

52 posted on 05/26/2003 4:42:26 PM PDT by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: Calpernia
bump for later
53 posted on 05/26/2003 4:42:59 PM PDT by Calpernia (The person who removes a mountain begins by carrying away small stones.)
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To: Incorrigible
When will the trend to outsource lawyers start?

Watch how fast the congress critters scramble to head that one off. They will move when it's their livelihood on the line.

54 posted on 05/26/2003 4:43:51 PM PDT by Marauder (I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.)
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To: Marauder
the state bar association licensing boards can stop that cold.
55 posted on 05/26/2003 4:45:01 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: BrooklynGOP
They have close to a billion people over there.

Correction, they have over a billion people there as of now.....and growing.

56 posted on 05/26/2003 4:45:42 PM PDT by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: Texaggie79
Are you, by any chance, in a union????

You raise a good question. Clearly the answer is more trade protectionism by the US, including higher tariffs, quotas and tighter government regulation of our labor markets. After all, free markets simply exploit working families for the benefit of the rich. We need to be careful not to fall for those misleading arguments put forth by mean spirited conservatives that a rising-tide raises all boats and that situations like this are not a question of zero-sum gain.

Furthermore, the unfortunate loss of life by the displaced worker is clear indication that we need more gun control now.

57 posted on 05/26/2003 4:46:28 PM PDT by Huber
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To: Pukin Dog
What smug nonsense.

If the Democrats really want this issue, it will be the wedge issue that will give them the White House, the House, and the Senate in 2008. Right not they are futzing about civil unions for homosexuals, not the problems that have decent, hard working Americans staring at the ceiling at 2AM wondering what is going to happen to their lives.

You may be willing to destroy the standard of living of most Americans to profit a few. Most Americans will not and they will register that preference at the ballot box. Just depends whether you want the GOP to be on the side of the offshore fatcat or the American people.
58 posted on 05/26/2003 4:47:03 PM PDT by Tokhtamish
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To: Lessismore
.......my cousin's husband worked for Earthlink and was very happy there.....he got the boot in March along with 4000 others.....the jobs went overseas to India and the Phillipines....we've all seen cases where municipalities give incentive packages to businesses to locate in their city....tax abatement, water and sewer, highway construction, industrial revenue bonds, railroad spurs ect, are common....those packages should have strings attatched regarding relocation and outsourcing.....if a company won't agree, then screw 'em....they don't get the package...
59 posted on 05/26/2003 4:47:29 PM PDT by STONEWALLS
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To: BrooklynGOP
You are right. Its totally unreasonable for me to desire to keep my standard of living. I should pool my money with several other IT workers and share my 1 bedroom and car with 10 other people, thus driving my cost of living down. Cool.

Exactly!! What many of these people fail to realize is that if the standard of living keeps falling for everyone else, eventually their's will also fall. Either that or they'll be living in a gated community with private security forces to keep the rabble out. No great country can survive without a strong middle class.

60 posted on 05/26/2003 4:48:22 PM PDT by YankeeReb
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