Outsourcing hits US techies hard

Times of India ^ | MAY 26, 2003 | CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

[Luke Skyfreeper]

What planet are you from?

He's from the planet of those who have plenty of money and can't understand those of us who are going through financial hardship. He considers himself superior to us.

[TaxRelief]

I want my country to stop giving away technology to people who didn't do anything to earn it and are only going to use it against us economically by putting us all out of work..

Not all of us Mr. Bannon, just those who choose to do nothing else because they are stuck in a rut.

(Do you really think India is trying to "do something to us"?)

[mylife]

Touche

[Jorge]

"Whatever happened to the American spirit that stands up to challenges and takes people through adversity and hard times?"

It was regulated out, it was killed through corporate profit that called on cheaper labor to do the high skilled work, it was killed by increased costs and licences and fees...It was also killed by Unions raising wages over the top and corporations giving millions away in bonuses while the people who did the production got laid off.

It got killed by over regulation, it got killed by the creation of laws designed for revenue, not right and wrong.

Wow...after reading your post I could get really depressed too.

Fortunately I spend my time around and work with people who still have that can-do, make the best of your opportunities American spirit...and I also make it a practice to thank God for what He has given me.

And I've learned that attitude means more in life than just about anything else..including one's present circumstances.
And I'm not ready to give into the self-pity and gloomy outlook I see in this thread. Sorry.

[FR_addict]

U.S. corporations are protected by U.S. laws, and yet conservatives are unwilling to pass laws to protect U.S. workers. We vote to give tax breaks to corporations so they can hire more people and "trickle down" some of that money to us. Well, unless we get hired, there is zero trickle down. If conservatives don't protect U.S. jobs on the border as well as overseas, then the whole conservative economic theory goes down the toilet.

I agree.

I'm very afraid that the recent tax will not help the economy. When JFK and Reagan passed their taxcuts, the jobs were still in America. If there are no laws passed to help protect the American worker, the extra money will just go to India.

As I mentioned before, the companies using offshore and Visa workers are looking for the quick fix, not good quality products. I am very surprised at the quality of software products being released. The attitude that workers are replaceable resources shows in the final product.

The companies that are using American workers have good quality products. Their employees have high morale and are loyal to the company. Turnover is low and this helps maintain the quality of the products.

Like many on this thread, I do not plan to buy a Dell again. We have three in our family. Evidently Dell has decided not to support the individual customer. Their customer support use to be great, now it is outsourced and you're lucky if you get someone who speaks English. Dell seems more interested in the larger corporate accounts. It is going heavy into storage products. Their strategy seems to be working, but one thing they forgot is that it is often the guy who just bought a Dell computer for his home that makes the decision on which SAN product his company will use. The way they are treating the little guy may bite them yet.

[crazykatz]

Those are phoney baloney jobs... made up so to cover the hiring of foreign H1B workers.

Perhaps you will lose your job someday to a foreign worker....now that would be rich.... or POOR in your case.

[TaxRelief]

There is God and a belief that God will provide.

[crazykatz]

BTTT

[LibertarianInExile]

PD, my used car is paid for, I don't even have cable or a VCR, my two jobs are overseas and I do exactly what you think we ought to do, work. I have no difficulty living by what you think are harsh standards. I am an American, and I work like one. I've never been on welfare, never been unemployed longer than two weeks, and even then, I was temping.

That said, that you believe the American government is doing the right thing in allowing jobs to be filled both in country and out by citizens of other countries, countries that don't have to compete on a level playing field in either their market (no access for American companies to sell there) or our market (no wage floor for their employees, no safety/work limits either), is incredibly callous for someone with no experience in the free market. Your life's work, that work by which you were financially set, is in an industry where unions have allowed Americans to maintain a monopoly on that work, and government rules restrict and license any foreign competitors out of business inside the United States. You might not have a union job, but odds are slim you will have a Mexican or an Indian getting qualified to take your piloting job, period, because airlines are so regulated and union contracts are so solid getting a job has meant keeping it for life (or simply hopping to the company that buys your routes if your airline folds due to those union wages).

But I'm sure you'd vote to lower pilots' wages and free all the air markets as soon as you got in the cockpit, in the name of competitiveness. </sarcasm>

Lots of us would want to find our ideal niche and do that for a living. It just happens that many of us have to work in competitive markets, and it does take a while to find that niche when you aren't on autopilot.

[RaceBannon]

Yes, I do believe that India is trying to do something to us, but only because they are involved in self preservation in the world economy.

What India sees is an opportunity that comes once a millenia, that the technology that rules the world will be handed to them on a silver platter by the west, all they need do is provide the labor to make it run for a few years, gather capital and knowlege, and then use it and make it themselves, prop up their economy as they grow while we wither down to serfdom due to the economic bubble being burst on us.

And we GAVE them the technology to do this, they didnt earn it, they didnt discover it, they didnt develop it, they didnt design it, they didnt make it, WE GAVE IT TO THEM!!!

[Pukin Dog]

and then let them come out with a competing product and sell it into our market.

I think they did. Only to a different customer. You can argue whether cheaper means better or not, but to the corporations that are hiring these folks, they appear to be competing just fine.

[Gary Boldwater]

The Gods of the Copybook Headings

I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.
We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will bum,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return.

[Lessismore]

Theodore Roosevelt -- Rich, elitist blowhard spends life sucking on the public tit. No Horatio Alger story here.

Theodore Roosevelt (October 27, 1858–January 6, 1919) was born in New York into one of the old Dutch families which had settled in America in the seventeenth century. At eighteen he entered Harvard College and spent four years there, dividing his time between books and sport and excelling at both. After leaving Harvard he studied in Germany for almost a year and then immediately entered politics. He was elected to the Assembly of New York State, holding office for three years and distinguishing himself as an ardent reformer.

In 1884, because of ill health and the death of his wife, Roosevelt abandoned his political work for some time. He invested part of the fortune he had inherited from his father in a cattle ranch in Wyoming, expecting to remain in the West for many years. He became a passionate hunter, especially of big game, and an ardent believer in the wild outdoor life which brought him health and strength. In 1886 Roosevelt returned to New York, married again, and once more plunged into politics.

http://www.nobel.se/peace/laureates/1906/roosevelt-bio.html

[bvw]

You're right and wrong. A person comes to you with a wound, you don't pour salt on it. However you do wash it out, and perhaps cauterize it. You then comfort the afflicted. Only when all that is done do you make some effot to remedy what caused the wound

You reach for the salt at the first opportunity, do you? While letting the wound fester?

Besides, promoting the stealing of jobs to foreign lands is NOT good for a nation's wealth. The pay to the foreign worker doesn't return to our shores easily, and it is the banking of that pay which provides the CAPITAL for development. The savings on price, or the reduction of cost does NOT have the leveraging effect that re-invested wages do.

[dalereed]

"I am sure there would be a sufficient number of pilots who are as qualified as you."

There aren't any pilots that can hold a candle to Navy pilots!

[Pukin Dog]

Do you think a man gets rich from a Commander's salary?

And what is the name calling all about?

I have been saving and investing since I was in college. If I had to rely on my Navy take home pay without taking a good percentage of it and investing it wisely, it would not be so.

At one time or another in your life, you likely had every option that I had. How you arrived at your current reality, is more your own doing than you seem willing to admit.

That you and I might have made different choices is clear. Like my choice NOT to call you a name, just because I might have a different opinion than you.

[crazykatz]

And, he was trained at our expense.... HARDWORKING AMERICAN TAXPAYERS not folks from India.

Boy, what a piece of work this guy is. Certainly NOT a conservative.

[TaxRelief]

THEY didnt even invent the technology that made us prosperous in the first place, nor did they invest in all the new machines or processes that took years and millions to develop!

They? Which they do you mean? Indians? Going back to 1964, a large portion of IBM were Indian. You are very mistaken if you think Indians haven't significantly contributed to the developement of technology in America.