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Outsourcing hits US techies hard
Times of India ^ | MAY 26, 2003 | CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

Posted on 05/26/2003 3:51:30 PM PDT by Lessismore

WASHINGTON: On a recent April afternoon in Silicon Valley, moments after he was told he had been laid off from his computer programming job at a Bank of America training centre, Kevin Flanagan stepped into the parking lot and shot himself dead.

Some of America's technology workers, who like Flanagan have also had to collect pink slips over the last several months, think they know why Flanagan took his life: Bank of America not only outsourced his job to India, but forced him to train Indian workers to do the job he had to give up.

In the weeks since his death, the techies have used the incident as fuel to fire a campaign against outsourcing to India, an issue that now seems poised to become a major sticking point between the two countries. Several US states are already considering legislation to ban or limit outsourcing.

Bank of America is one of several major US corporations – General Electric, Microsoft, Intel are among others - under scrutiny for outsourcing jobs to India. The Bank created what is called a "Global Delivery centre" in 2000 to identify projects that could be sent offshore.

Since then it has signed agreements with Infosys and Tata Consulting Services (TCS) to provide solutions and services.

In an e-mail exchange with this correspondent, Kevin's father Tom Flanagan said "a significant reason for which my son took his life was indeed as a result of his job being outsourced."

"Did he blame India for his job loss? No. He blamed the "system." He couldn't understand why Americans are losing jobs. Rather I should say he understood it economically, but not emotionally," Flanagan said.

Bank officials, who did not return calls relating to Flanagan's death, have said in the past that the deal with Indian companies would effect no more than 5 per cent of the bank's 21,000 employees, or about 1,100 jobs, in its technology and operations division.

According to some surveys, the US has lost at least 800,000 jobs in the past year and some 3.3 million jobs will move overseas over the next few years because of outsourcing, mostly to India.

The Bank has also acknowledged that it had asked local workers to train foreigners because such knowledge transfer was essential. According to Tom Flanagan, his son was "totally disgusted" with the fact that he and his fellow-workers had to train foreigners to do his job so they could take over. "That sir is a travesty," he said in one e-mail.

US tech workers are challenging the corporate world's claim that it is outsourcing work to improve bottomlines and efficiency. Some analysts have also pointed out that US corporations were being forced to tighten up by the same people who are moaning about outsourcing, and who, heavily invested in the stock market, demand better performance.

But on one website that discussed the Flanagan case, a tech worker pointed out that data processing consumed only a small per cent of revenues and was hardly a drain on the Bank's profit.

"(It is) a prosperous bank which has let greed trump any sense of patriotism or social responsibility," he fumed.


TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; michaeldobbs
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To: Pukin Dog
Americans just do not realize how good we have it over here. There are people in other countries willing to work harder for much less.

If their cost of living was as high there as it is here, then perhaps they couldn't be willing to work harder for "much less".

Maybe instead of trying to keep them out, we should develop a set of values that insure we do not become less valuable workers to this nation's employers.

There are 2 billion ppl between China and India. Good luck.

21 posted on 05/26/2003 4:18:58 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: bribriagain
My suggestion.  Tell them not to artificially limit themselves to engineering.

After graduation, I swore I would never take another engineering class as long as I lived!  I didn't.  I got my MBA.

The cool thing about being an engineer in an MBA class is while everyone else is struggling with simple integration equations in economics, the engineer can breeze through much of the math requirements of an MBA.  In fact, I was allowed to get a pass on several of the more basic math class requirements.

In my 15 years since graduation, I've drifted between development, consulting, management and sales.  I'm currently in sales.  I'm feeling pretty secure at the moment until everyone is willing to accept tele-video sales calls from India!

Having the dedication it takes to become an engineer means you can exploit that perseverance in any line of work.  Don't let the current market get them down.

22 posted on 05/26/2003 4:19:22 PM PDT by Incorrigible
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To: redbaiter
Oh what a GREAT POINT!!!

I wonder if he might have ever considered using his experience to train others?

No, I guess it's much easier to just blame the world and check out.
23 posted on 05/26/2003 4:19:29 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: lonestar
Government.
24 posted on 05/26/2003 4:21:49 PM PDT by Ed_in_NJ
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To: Pukin Dog
I wonder if he might have ever considered using his experience to train others?

That's retarded. Who's he going to train if there is no demand for IT labor in US?

25 posted on 05/26/2003 4:21:57 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
My experience tells me that your "Cost of Living" is whatever you want it to be.

Most of us are living the "Cost of keeping up with the Joneses" rather than the cost of living.

If 2 billion Chinese and Indians are willing to out work and out think me, then I guess they deserve to live better than me.
26 posted on 05/26/2003 4:24:05 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: lonestar
Welding, power plant operation, car repair.
27 posted on 05/26/2003 4:24:27 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: lonestar
>>"Do you have a clue what the job market will be in 4 years? What I'm asking, what should this years high school grads be majoring in for future job potential?

Yeah, Nursing. All the old people will be dieing off soon and they need someone to change their crappy diapers. Enjoy life! ;-) (/sarcasm?)

28 posted on 05/26/2003 4:25:36 PM PDT by Normal4me (I am a militant conservative according to Petah Jennings. I LIKE it!)
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To: Incorrigible
Re your post #7.

I know great kids who have graduated from college over a year ago with engineering degrees (Virginia Tech) and have yet to find a job. Talked to a friend of mine whose daughter just graduated with a teaching degree -- hasn't found work. The smaller communities where her daughter would like to teach, cannot afford more teachers. One person out of that graduating class has found a job so far. Many of these kids are continuing their education simply because there are no jobs.

29 posted on 05/26/2003 4:25:53 PM PDT by EverOnward
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To: Lessismore
I just find it interesting that companies in the United States use the US's copyright laws, legal system, and military to protect their rights, but won't show allegience to the citizens of the country that allowed them to become the successful multinational corporations that they are today. American corporations are so focused on diversity in the workplace, especially diversity towards foreign workers, but don't think twice about any sense of patriotism towards the people who keep the country that protects these corporation afloat.

-PJ

30 posted on 05/26/2003 4:26:18 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (It's not safe yet to vote Democrat.)
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To: Pukin Dog
My experience tells me that your "Cost of Living" is whatever you want it to be.

Sure. So if I am used to living in a decent apartment and own a car, and eat out once in a while and then you have a bunch of people who are fine living dozen to a room and eating once a day... You are right. Its totally unreasonable for me to desire to keep my standard of living. I should pool my money with several other IT workers and share my 1 bedroom and car with 10 other people, thus driving my cost of living down. Cool.

31 posted on 05/26/2003 4:26:24 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
We would not be having this conversation, were their no demand.

I just got my first computer 7 weeks ago, after 21 years in the Navy. He could train me!
32 posted on 05/26/2003 4:26:58 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: BrooklynGOP
If others are willing to make those sacrifices, and you are not, then why should they not take your job?
33 posted on 05/26/2003 4:27:55 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
The article speaks well of avoiding programming as career, unless you wish to work in India.
34 posted on 05/26/2003 4:29:05 PM PDT by Rebelbase (220, 221 whatever it takes.)
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To: Pukin Dog
I just got my first computer 7 weeks ago, after 21 years in the Navy. He could train me!

Obviously you have little to no clue as to what's going on in the real world. He didn't train those Indians on how to use a computer, nor did he give them general technical skills. He showed them how the bank's proprietary system works. Much like "training" the guy who valet parks cars by showing him where to put the keys.

35 posted on 05/26/2003 4:29:24 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: Pukin Dog
If others are willing to make those sacrifices, and you are not, then why should they not take your job?

Are you willing to make that sacrifice? Live 10 to a room, etc?

36 posted on 05/26/2003 4:30:22 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
No, I have no clue, you are right.

Nope, I only flew jets for two decades, while managing to save enough money to not be worried about finding a job anytime soon.

No, I would say I am just clueless.

Have a nice day.
37 posted on 05/26/2003 4:31:58 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: Lessismore
Ernest Hollings was on with Lou Dobbs tonight talking about this phenomena. I am telling you, the Dems are going to pick this up as an issue. Its not just IT, its human resources departments, customer service, financial services, basically any job that can be done using a computer terminal is going to be offshored by US corporate management who use the savings to put into their own pockets. This is going to be a big issue, not that the Dems will do anything about it, but they will talk about it and promise programs for the displaced workers, and believe me they will gain votes from it.

There just aren't enough service jobs that pay high wages to support a middle class in this country if all of these "information" jobs go overseas.
38 posted on 05/26/2003 4:32:08 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
The John Pickle Co., manufacturer of industrial equipment—including boilers and other pressure holding vessels—finds itself in a pickle of a lawsuit due to its practice of holding welders from India as virtual slaves, reports the Tulsa World.

However, the more important issue—the lack of any need to import welders—is not addressed.

Pickle has been contracting with Al Samit International, a Bombay, India, recruiting company which charges Indian nationals up to $2,500 to find them work in the United States. That amount is a fortune for the average Indian, who must gain a high income as justification for such a layout. Once the money is obligated to Al Samit there is no backing out of the deal.

Al Samit, at the last minute, demands investors sign contracts which result in pay of between $2.31 to $3.17 hourly, little different from India’s wages. The contractees actually work for Al Samit while companies such as Pickle contract their labor.

SIMILAR TO PRISONS

When workers arrive at John Pickle Co. they are housed inside a compound at the factory under least expensive circumstances similar to prison setups. They are not allowed to leave the premises unless accompanied by factory agents. Their work day is reportedly from 12 to 18 hours.

Complainers have been unceremoniously returned to India or shipped to another John Pickle Co. plant in Kuwait to work under similar circumstances.

For full article see:

http://www.americanfreepress.net/Free_Trade/H1-B_Visas_Shaft_U_S__Workers/h1-b_visas_shaft_u_s__workers.html

39 posted on 05/26/2003 4:32:29 PM PDT by EverOnward
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To: Political Junkie Too
Re your post #30

You are so right.

40 posted on 05/26/2003 4:34:05 PM PDT by EverOnward
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