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Outsourcing hits US techies hard
Times of India ^ | MAY 26, 2003 | CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

Posted on 05/26/2003 3:51:30 PM PDT by Lessismore

WASHINGTON: On a recent April afternoon in Silicon Valley, moments after he was told he had been laid off from his computer programming job at a Bank of America training centre, Kevin Flanagan stepped into the parking lot and shot himself dead.

Some of America's technology workers, who like Flanagan have also had to collect pink slips over the last several months, think they know why Flanagan took his life: Bank of America not only outsourced his job to India, but forced him to train Indian workers to do the job he had to give up.

In the weeks since his death, the techies have used the incident as fuel to fire a campaign against outsourcing to India, an issue that now seems poised to become a major sticking point between the two countries. Several US states are already considering legislation to ban or limit outsourcing.

Bank of America is one of several major US corporations – General Electric, Microsoft, Intel are among others - under scrutiny for outsourcing jobs to India. The Bank created what is called a "Global Delivery centre" in 2000 to identify projects that could be sent offshore.

Since then it has signed agreements with Infosys and Tata Consulting Services (TCS) to provide solutions and services.

In an e-mail exchange with this correspondent, Kevin's father Tom Flanagan said "a significant reason for which my son took his life was indeed as a result of his job being outsourced."

"Did he blame India for his job loss? No. He blamed the "system." He couldn't understand why Americans are losing jobs. Rather I should say he understood it economically, but not emotionally," Flanagan said.

Bank officials, who did not return calls relating to Flanagan's death, have said in the past that the deal with Indian companies would effect no more than 5 per cent of the bank's 21,000 employees, or about 1,100 jobs, in its technology and operations division.

According to some surveys, the US has lost at least 800,000 jobs in the past year and some 3.3 million jobs will move overseas over the next few years because of outsourcing, mostly to India.

The Bank has also acknowledged that it had asked local workers to train foreigners because such knowledge transfer was essential. According to Tom Flanagan, his son was "totally disgusted" with the fact that he and his fellow-workers had to train foreigners to do his job so they could take over. "That sir is a travesty," he said in one e-mail.

US tech workers are challenging the corporate world's claim that it is outsourcing work to improve bottomlines and efficiency. Some analysts have also pointed out that US corporations were being forced to tighten up by the same people who are moaning about outsourcing, and who, heavily invested in the stock market, demand better performance.

But on one website that discussed the Flanagan case, a tech worker pointed out that data processing consumed only a small per cent of revenues and was hardly a drain on the Bank's profit.

"(It is) a prosperous bank which has let greed trump any sense of patriotism or social responsibility," he fumed.


TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; michaeldobbs
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To: Dave S
I presume he was talking about training the people from India and other asian countries that come here on H1B (?)visas and work for $50-60,000 when Americans want $120,000 for the same jobs.

Lol! I was unemployed for over a year and I couldn't find anything that was $10+. Its my understanding that the jobs that are getting outsourced are primarily low level coding jobs, data entry, and customer service (24x7).

Hah! Do you even know what "low level coding" means?

181 posted on 05/26/2003 6:45:38 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: marktwain
Sorry, had a calculator glitch.

$848.64 a year though for a 16 hour a day 6 day a week worker though. Man. Yet Nike can pay Lebron James $90 million and still make a profit.

Maybe it is because they pay their workers such crap wages that Lebron James gets so much.

182 posted on 05/26/2003 6:46:24 PM PDT by dogbyte12
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
Programmers inthe Insurance industry up here in CT are now living in India and Malaysia.

Not Hartford.
183 posted on 05/26/2003 6:47:58 PM PDT by RaceBannon
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To: Lessismore
When companies are willing to sell their products in overseas cheap market, then let them build them there. If they won’t build their products here, In America, then forbid them to sell them here!

If a company wants to spend their money overseas, then refuse them the American tax break for the costs! We should not be giving tax breaks of American money so that American companies can send that money overseas.

An American should be able to take any job from any foreigner within 30 days of that foreigner getting the job. Why? Because companies are failing to provide adequate notice as required by law that they were hiring a foreign in the first place.


I am getting tired of dealing with Indians who speak as though they have a mouth full of marbles.
184 posted on 05/26/2003 6:49:04 PM PDT by PatrioticAmerican (Forget the spy planes - AC-130!)
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To: SoCal_Republican
"There, but for the grace of God ..."

Do you believe that God just picks out some people for success and others for failure? I believe that God gives us enough rope to make decisions that effect us for the good or for the bad.

I keep reading that word 'smug', an I do not understand at all why what I am saying is being called that. I thought that the attitude I am reading here was reserved for Liberals.

When did Conservatives start doing all this complaining? Bad times come and go. I choose not to blame them on God.
185 posted on 05/26/2003 6:49:13 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: dogbyte12
Apparently Lebron is worth it - if he wasn't they wouldn't pay him that much.
186 posted on 05/26/2003 6:49:13 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: Dave S
Your understanding is wrong.
187 posted on 05/26/2003 6:49:27 PM PDT by FR_addict
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To: El Gato
Thank you for the correction.
188 posted on 05/26/2003 6:49:49 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: YankeeReb
I'm seriously considering telling my kids to skip college and go to a trade or technical school.

To study what? More and more, you are going to find that technical products will be able to be hooked up to the internet and be diagnosed and repaired from anywhere in the world.

189 posted on 05/26/2003 6:53:02 PM PDT by Dave S
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To: BrooklynGOP
Lebron James could blow a knee, have a mediocre career, get into drug problems, whatever. He ain't worth $90,000,000. I would question this deal if I was a Nike stockholder.

If $10 towards every pair of shoes with his name on it goes into the pay his contract fund... it will take 9 million pairs of sneakers sold before they break even. That is not including the advertising budget.

190 posted on 05/26/2003 6:53:06 PM PDT by dogbyte12
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To: Lessismore
All of you on this thread who think this is all about competition, one question: How many Indian banks does Bank of America compete against? Answer: none. Indian banks can't get federally insured or licensed to do business here.

Another question: If Americans take lower paying jobs to compete with foreigners, there will be less spending and lower demand for the expensive products and services U.S. corporations are pushing, so who will buy what? Tax cuts don't help the man with no income. There is more to the economy than tax cuts and corporations always know best. I've seen so many idiotic responses on this thread, it's no wonder the democrats haven't disappeared, there don't seem to be enough conservatives willing to accept reality.

Life needs balance, and so does the economy. Corporations only exist because there is a demand for whatever they supply. Take the money from the person doing the demanding and the demand goes away, and in the end, so will the supply. You have Mexicans taking low income unskilled jobs. You have Chinese taking manufacturing jobs. You have Indians taking tech jobs. What's left? Sales? Great, but who are you going to sell to when noone has a FRICKIN JOB!

Next thing you know, you need hispanics to sell to the Mexicans who actually have jobs. You need Indians to sell to the Indians who actually have jobs. You need Chinese to sell to the Chinese who actually have jobs. You DON'T NEED Americans to sell to Americans because they don't have any jobs, and now there are no sales jobs.

U.S. corporations are protected by U.S. laws, and yet conservatives are unwilling to pass laws to protect U.S. workers. We vote to give tax breaks to corporations so they can hire more people and "trickle down" some of that money to us. Well, unless we get hired, there is zero trickle down. If conservatives don't protect U.S. jobs on the border as well as overseas, then the whole conservative economic theory goes down the toilet.
191 posted on 05/26/2003 6:53:06 PM PDT by thedugal (Someone ping me when the shootin' starts...)
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To: Pukin Dog
I have been reading "The Sky is Falling" stories about the American economy for four decades now. Somehow, most people seem to get better off, the standard of living seems to keep on rising, and most people live longer, healthier, mostly happy lives.

The sky never does seem to fall. I remember reading about how Japan was going to own America. Japan is now into its second decade of recession because it is unwilling to allow businesses to fail and to restructure its economy.

There just seems to be an inate pessismism in people who want to believe that bad things are going to happen.

My heart goes out to those who take a hit in the economy. Been there, done that. The best you can do is pick up the pieces and keep going. Be frugal, plan for the future problems, and try to keep flexible. Don't burden yourself with debt.

For those who look to Europe as a model of protectionism, Europeans may have six week vacations, but their standard of living is about half of that of the U.S. Around the world, where you have free markets and free trade, you have prosperity. Where you have protecitonism and controlled economies, you have falling or stagnant standards of living.

192 posted on 05/26/2003 6:53:14 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: Dave S
Its my understanding that the jobs that are getting outsourced are primarily low level coding jobs, data entry, and customer service (24x7).

In application development, the mechanics of outsourcing make it more attractive to outsource larger, self-contained pieces of work. So many of the larger, leading-edge projects are the first to go. Plus, the Indian companies have a lot of staff that is just fresh out of school and more adaptable to the new technology. Grungy maintenance of obsolete systems is also outsourced. Constantly updated bread-and-butter systems are most likely to stay on-shore, but they will be replaced sooner or later.

193 posted on 05/26/2003 6:53:47 PM PDT by Lessismore
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To: marktwain
Well, you just hit the nail on the head.

Thank you.
194 posted on 05/26/2003 6:55:47 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: All

Welcome to the
Outsourced IT Workers'
Therapy Group!

Come on in, let's discuss your fears!
How do you FEEL about the trauma of globalization.
CMM too constraining? Not up for change?
Don't worry someone here will listen to YOU.


195 posted on 05/26/2003 6:56:00 PM PDT by TaxRelief (Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country...)
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To: Dave S
service jobs that require the person to actually he here, they can't fix your car over the internet.
196 posted on 05/26/2003 6:57:22 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: Sonny M
Hindu's in general seem to hate muslims (indian muslim or not),

They know them better than most, and learn at their mothers breast it seems, how bad things were befor the British came, when the Muslims were the overlords.

Their main problem, as I was once told by an aquaintence in the "intelligence community", and later related to an Indian co-worker (PhD physicist from a US school), who agreed, "If you can't bribe and Indian government worker, you can't bribe anybody." Which is probably a leftover from the period of Muslim dominance.

Their uniformed military is quite professional though, and still runs pretty much along the British model. They even employ lots of Gurkas, far more than the Brits themselves do. I guess that's a form of oursourcing, as the Gurkas work cheap, even in Brit service they get way less than comparable Brit nationals. However they, the Indians, and the Brits too of course, know quality when they see it, as do their enemies. It warms the cockles of my heart to imagine some Pak terrorist cringing at the thought that the Indians might sic the Gurka battalion on him, and at the thought of that knife they use. :)

197 posted on 05/26/2003 6:57:40 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: Lurker
Gone are the days when FR was even half capitalist....

The replies to you are enlightening.

198 posted on 05/26/2003 6:57:45 PM PDT by DAnconia55
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To: thegreatbeast; ELS
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/5/22/15302.shtml

I am bookmarking that article and sending it to everyone on the planet!!
199 posted on 05/26/2003 6:58:37 PM PDT by RaceBannon
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To: El Gato
You have to love that blade...and the way its used so well.
200 posted on 05/26/2003 7:00:03 PM PDT by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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