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They may not be in charge, but their ideas are: Thomas Jefferson was a great believer in the "citizen-farmer" class. It was also this same class of people that helped Rome gain the power that it did. This was the equivalent to a modern middle class-it had a stake in what goes on in big government. Of course everyday we drift farther and farther from that mold-we become more and more like the Roman empire, and not the republic. Lifetime politicians who serve only the mob, (the great class of the-what did the commies call it, the proletariat or some such?)of idle non workers living off the govt. dole. ect and so forth....

And what finally did in Greek power-democracy man, pure democracy=the tyranny of the majority.

Because, typically, a civilization passes through phases of virtue, ascendance, dominance, then decadence so it cannot dominate forever.

The Romans took the ideas of the Greeks and made their own special addition, lex, i.e. the rule of law. This proved to be a culture superior to even that of the Greeks, which had become somewhat decadent by the time of Rome's ascendance. Rome eventually pacified and incorporated Greece, which then became a client state of Rome, a nice place to send the kids for college. Still, Rome's victory at its core was a Greek victory because Rome's dominance over Greece was born out of how well they incorporated the ideas of the Greeks and improved upon them. In essence, they had become bigger believers in the Greek approach than the Greeks themselves.

For a variety of reasons, Rome in its time fell, in part because of decadence.

Hanson is not really talking about Greece as a place as much as a state of mind and an approach to knowledge, and the Americans are the most successful society because they have most successfully adopted and adapted this approach in modern times, because it was transmitted to us through the classical culture of the British Empire. (Think of the lyrics of "Modern Major General" by Gilbert and Sullivan. If you were going to be an officer in the British military, it was assumed that you could read Latin and Greek.)

Think of it this way. If a modern day American scholar went back in time to Greece and used the words drama, comedy, democracy, tyranny, legal, idiot, senate, republic, empire, liberty, science, etc., the ancient speaker would understand because they would not be just understood concepts, but the words themselves are if fact the exact same words as 2,000 years ago. However, if you use these words in a "modern" Islamic society, they really won't know what you're talking about although they sometimes do a good job of pretending they do.

Every civilization will see it's demise, if history is any indicator. I think what Mr. Hanson's analogy applies to is the zenith of Greek hegemony.

All I could think of while watching the war in Iraq unfold, is how very much we are as the Roman Empire was during it's golden era - minus the crucifixtions, of course. The only thing that will stop the US's juggernaut is catastrophe, and I'm not even sure that will fully disable us.

Even with all our problems, we are the most adaptable people on the face of the earth and we're the smartest too. No matter what the Europeans say about the US placing such and such in Math, Science, etc. We are the ones driving technological advance, so whoever is doing that has a handle on Math and Science and 'other' subject matter as well.

In addition, and as importantly, there are still quite a few kids out there who may not now the difference between the Pathogrean Thereom (sp?) and a Proteus switch, but they can take apart an engine and rebuild it at the age of 16 or 17. That takes smarts, it may not be SAT smarts but so what?

Speaking as an FBI (full-blooded Italian) who thinks they're pretty smart; they have nothing on Americans, plain and simple. With the possible exception of food and/or fashion; nice frippery, but not the substance of a powerhouse civilization.

Our greatest assest is that we take 'intellectuals' with a large dose of salt, and we prize commons sense above all. We reign and we rule. That probably will come to an end some day, but not for many, many generations to come.

"I am by no means a Greek scholar, but if we are following the successful Greek path, then why are the Greeks not in charge right now? "

ah, but they are. domocracy is a greek concept for starters...

We live in what is referred to as a "western" culture, which has two pillers. greco-roman and judeo-christian

Of course the Greeks themselves don't rule the world anymore for the same reason we will sooner or later forfiet our "single super power" status. internal corruption, and self-destruction. When a society loses it's mores it begins to die.

I am by no means a Greek scholar, but if we are following the successful Greek path, then why are the Greeks not in charge right now? The current global influence of Greece is the revenue made from "my big fat greek wedding" (which stank btw). I am not being facetous -- I really want to know.

The Greek way of war was copied by the Romans who trumped the Greek City States by the size and resources of their ancient version of the Nation State. The Roman way of war was then inherited by what later came to be called "Western Civilization".

When the British Empire was in full bloom, British officers went out conquer the world after a Classical education that had them dreaming of glory after reading the Iliad as schoolboys. Lord Nelson went to Battle at Trafalgar with ships named after Greek mythology.

It's not really just the "Greek Way of War.

It's The Western Way of War

"[W]hy are the Greeks not in charge now?

Want to know? Read Polybius' "Rise of the Roman Empire". Or, to put it simply, in the Romans, the Greeks encountered a people who copied everything worthwhile from the Greeks and improved on it. When the Romans' cultural parity was joined with its economic superiority (via the domination of the Italian peninsula)and military virtuousity, the Greeks (who were divided into several rival and mutually distrusting factions) were toast.

see ottoman empire and 400 years of slavery.

Seriously, did you know the first draft if the post revolution 1821 greek constitution was drafted by a greek schollar and THOMAS JEFFERSON in paris? The european monarchs got scared about the spread of americanism and imposed a constitutional monarchy on the flegling nation.

Greece currently has gasoline refinery, pipeline industries which make them a way point for shipping. They ports in Pireas and Thessaloniki have cargo shipps comming and going every day.

They also only have 11 million people and all the stuck on stupid problems of the EU.

The Greek problem is they have stopped trying to be Greek and have become bad Europeans.

Footnotes: During WW II Greeks in the USA sold the most war bonds. In one survey in the 1970's (ok its old) Greek voters trended close to 70% conservative. Greeks did not vote for Dukakis in overwhelming numbers.