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To: 45Auto

The .375 H and H, left, and the .470 Nitro Express

2 posted on 05/23/2003 5:54:51 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: 45Auto
Are those ok for gopher?
3 posted on 05/23/2003 5:59:03 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 45Auto
Teddy used the .405 Winchester did he not?
4 posted on 05/23/2003 6:01:14 PM PDT by wardaddy (Your momma said I was a loser, a deadend cruiser and deep inside I knew that she was right)
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To: 45Auto
Shot both of them. The Holland and Holland is the nastiest one to shoot. Shot it three times and that was the last time I ever touched it. Friend of mine had it and used it for Alaska Brown Bear hunting in the 70s. Understand he has a trip planned to go to Siberia to hunt in a year or so, bears again.
25 posted on 05/23/2003 7:35:30 PM PDT by crz
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To: 45Auto
.470 Nitro Express

I'm amazed that some very savvy marketing expert hasn't marketed a high-performance
automobile as the "Nitro Express".

Thanks for posting...I grew up on a semi-regular diet of "Outdoor Life" magazine...
28 posted on 05/23/2003 7:42:46 PM PDT by VOA
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To: 45Auto
MATHEMATICIANS hunt elephants by going to Africa, throwing out everything that is not an elephant, and shooting one of whatever is left.

EXPERIENCED MATHEMATICIANS will attempt to prove the existence of at least one unique elephant before proceeding to step 1 as a subordinate exercise.

PROFESSORS OF MATHEMATICS will prove the existence of at least one unique elephant and then leave the detection and harvest of an actual elephant as an exercise for their graduate students.

COMPUTER SCIENTISTS hunt elephants by exercising Algorithm A:

  1. Go to Africa.
  2. Start at the Cape of Good Hope.
  3. Work northward in an orderly manner, traversing the continent alternately east and west.
  4. During each traverse pass,
  1. Shoot each animal seen.
  2. Compare each animal shot to a known elephant.
  3. Stop when a match is detected.

EXPERIENCED COMPUTER PROGRAMMERS modify Algorithm A by placing a known elephant in Cairo to ensure that the algorithm will terminate.

ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE PROGRAMMERS prefer to execute Algorithm A on their hands and knees ENGINEERS hunt elephants by going to Africa, shooting gray animals at random, and stopping when any one of them weighs within plus or minus 15 percent of any previously observed elephant.

ECONOMISTS don't hunt elephants, but they believe that if elephants are paid enough, they will hunt themselves.

STATISTICIANS hunt the first animal they see N times and call it an elephant.

CONSULTANTS don't hunt elephants, and many have never hunted anything at all, but they can be hired by the hour to advise those people who do.

OPERATIONS RESEARCH CONSULTANTS can also measure the correlation of hat size and bullet color to the efficiency of elephant-hunting strategies, if someone else will only identify the elephants.

POLITICIANS don't hunt elephants, but they will share the elephants you shoot with the people who voted for them.

LAWYERS don't hunt elephants, but they do follow the herds around arguing about who owns the droppings.

SOFTWARE LAWYERS will claim that they own an entire herd based on the look and feel of one dropping.

VICE PRESIDENTS OF ENGINEERING, RESEARCH, AND DEVELOPMENT try hard to hunt elephants, but their staffs are designed to prevent it. When the vice president does get to hunt elephants, the staff will try to ensure that all possible elephants are completely prehunted before the vice president sees them. If the vice president does see a non-prehunted elephant, the staff will (1) compliment the vice president's keen eyesight and (2) enlarge itself to prevent any recurrence.

SENIOR MANAGERS set broad elephant-hunting policy based on the assumption that elephants are just like field mice, but with deeper voices.

QUALITY ASSURANCE INSPECTORS ignore the elephants and look for mistakes the other hunters made when they were packing the jeep.

SALES PEOPLE don't hunt elephants but spend their time selling elephants they haven't shot, for delivery two days before the season opens.

SOFTWARE SALES PEOPLE ship the first thing they shoot and write up an invoice for an elephant.

HARDWARE SALES PEOPLE shoot rabbits, paint them gray, and sell them as desktop elephants.

EXPERIMENTAL PHYSICISTS hunt elephants by shooting everything in Africa with a bazooka and looking for a giant, flying ivory tusk that is theorized to be part of the elephant's primary decay mode. (Actually, since the presence of elephants in Africa is fairly well established, experimental physicists have recently been hunting in Europe and North America where they are convinced that if only they build a big enough bazooka they'll surely find the elephant they're looking for.)

THEORETICAL PHYSICISTS don't actually hunt elephants, but they argue a lot about whether an elephant that an experimental phsycist may have shot (but might have missed) can reasonably be modeled by a half dead elephant.


From cengel over here.
45 posted on 05/23/2003 9:34:35 PM PDT by kitchen
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To: 45Auto
You're absolutely right: big holes are almost always better.
I've never had an interest in shooting an elephant (or, for that matter, a lion), but I have hunted big game in Southern Africa (in Namibia and on the Okavango River in the Caprivi Strip) two of the last three years. I've also had several unpleasant encounters with elephants, including one who mock charged (a sight guaranteed to turn your bowels to water).
It is easy to forget how big a bull African elephant really is. It's something like having a thinking (and very pissed off) Winnebago coming at you.
Now, an experienced life-long elephant hunter (say, Selous) might be sufficiently sure of himself to put .375 round into an elephant's skull and be pretty sure he's going to drop it with a brain shot. But for us mere mortals, that's just not enough gun for safety.
African game is stunningly tough, capable of taking rounds well above what we are used to in North America.
For example,I took two rifles: a Weatherby 7 mm magnum and a safari grade Winchester Model 70 chambered for the .416 Remington magnum (300 grain).
With the 7 mm, a bullet you can use effectively on a just about any animal in this hemisphere, I shot an eland through the front pectoral on a frontal shot from 80 yards. The bullet never reached the animal's heart. We had to stalk it for four hours.
With the .416 I put a bullet, via shoulder shot at 40 yards, right into the heart of a large Cape Buffalo. It turned, stared at me (along with six of his friends -- a terrifying moment), then turned and ran fifty feet before tumbling. As I approached, he managed to get up on his forelegs and give me a look of such homicidal malevolence that it just about froze my blood. Getting around behind him (I was afraid of bouncing a shot off his boss and really ticking him off) I finally dispatched him with a spinal shot from about 30 feet.
Keep in mind, this was with a .416 Rem mag, a gun that could probably stop a bus with a shot through the engine block. A gun that has so much recoil, and transmits so many joules of energy, that the ten shots it took to sight it in left me whimpering, with a numb arm, and a shoulder that was black for two weeks.
All of this is a long way of saying that, in Africa, you can't have enough gun. Next time I go, I'm taking the .416, and a new .375 H&H (Win. Model 70)just for the mid-sized game.
As for elephants, if I were to hunt one (and again, I won't, mainly out of awe and respect) I wouldn't use anything less than a large bore (.416 Rigby or up) and only with a double gun -- bolt actions can get real complicated when you are about to get stomped into jelly. . .
63 posted on 05/24/2003 12:33:23 AM PDT by giant sable
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