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To: biblewonk
Well I guess it's time to get rid of Acts, Romans 1,2 Cor, Gal, Eph, Phil, Col, 1,2 The, 1,2 Tim, Titus, Philemon, Heb, Jame, 1,2 Peter, 1,2,3 John, Jude and Revelation.

No... it is time to put them in perspective. Yes, homosexuality is decried in areas of the bible... not by Jesus personally though. My question is why is this the most important issue to some people, when it wasn't with Jesus. Double parking is wrong, but I would find somebody silly who made it their life long crusade to end it, while people were being stabbed around them.

Why don't we first try to address the issues Jesus preached about, then once we have mastered those, we can start working on what Paul and Timothy think.

48 posted on 05/20/2003 8:48:18 AM PDT by dogbyte12
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To: dogbyte12
No... it is time to put them in perspective. Yes, homosexuality is decried in areas of the bible... not by Jesus personally though. My question is why is this the most important issue to some people, when it wasn't with Jesus. Double parking is wrong, but I would find somebody silly who made it their life long crusade to end it, while people were being stabbed around them.

Why don't we first try to address the issues Jesus preached about, then once we have mastered those, we can start working on what Paul and Timothy think.

So you believe Paul was wrong in Romans for dissing sodomites? Or do you believe that Paul was speaking for God, as in inspired, but not speaking for Jesus?

63 posted on 05/20/2003 8:53:03 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrissssstian)
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To: dogbyte12
Jesus and the Homosexual

Perhaps the reason Jesus said nothing specifically about homosexuality was that "gay lifestyles" were virtually unknown in the Israel of his day. Everyone knew and understood the culturally acceptable standards. Sexual immorality in any form was shameful and not for open public discussion. In fact, even the suggestion of heterosexual activity before marriage was scandalous:

"Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit; and her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly. But as he considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, 'Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit; she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.' All this took place to fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 'Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel' (which means, God with us). When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took his wife, but knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus." (Matthew 1:18-25)

Jesus and the Law of Moses

What was the attitude of Jesus towards the Law of Moses? In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus said the following:

"Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:17-20)

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell." (Matthew 5:27-30)

"It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery." (Matthew 5:31-32)

Thus Jesus invariably upheld the authority and applicability of the teachings and Law of Moses. In fact He interpreted Moses in a manner which intensified the demands of the Law. The Law reveals the moral character and the holiness of God which can not change. The purpose of the Law of Moses is not to produce good moral behavior, but to call all of us to understand our need for God's mercy and forgiveness:

"...a man is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified." (Galatians 2:16)

Homosexuality: A Political Mask For Promiscuity: A Psychiatrist Reviews The Data Indeed, the Torah reserves its most intense condemnation for homosexuality: "to'eva" - abomination...

If it's that important

For those who lack common sense:

Roman's 1 on Homosexuality

St. Paul's Argument From Nature Against Homosexuality (Romans 1).

Responding to Pro-Gay Theology

73 posted on 05/20/2003 8:58:47 AM PDT by Remedy
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To: dogbyte12
Why don't we first try to address the issues Jesus preached about, then once we have mastered those, we can start working on what Paul and Timothy think.

Because they are all the words of Christ, written by the Spirit through the various apostles and prophets. One book of the Bible is not more important that the other.

79 posted on 05/20/2003 9:00:50 AM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: dogbyte12
"No... it is time to put them in perspective. Yes, homosexuality is decried in areas of the bible... not by Jesus personally though. My question is why is this the most important issue to some people, when it wasn't with Jesus. Double parking is wrong, but I would find somebody silly who made it their life long crusade to end it, while people were being stabbed around them.

Why don't we first try to address the issues Jesus preached about, then once we have mastered those, we can start working on what Paul and Timothy think."

The answer is because some people are fixated on homosexuality and homosexuals. Personally, I don't doubt that many of them have personal issues (closet case, childhood abuse) that contribute to their obsession with other's sexual habits/orientation.

It's been my experience that people secure in their sexuality could care less about what someone else does. Then again, I'm a GenXer so I have a different perspective than many of the posters on FR.

Trace

Trace
83 posted on 05/20/2003 9:03:04 AM PDT by Trace21230 (Ideal MOAB test site: Paris)
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To: dogbyte12
Why don't we first try to address the issues Jesus preached about, then once we have mastered those, we can start working on what Paul and Timothy think.

This is pure blatant hypocrisy. I am forced to assume that your statement is made by a non-believer because no believing Christian could make such a statement. Jesus didn't need to speak about sexual morality continutally because it was so obviously wrong. There was no debate about the issue. But anyone with the least familiarity with the New Testament is aware that he did mention it many, many times. One poster has already pointed out where it is mentioned in the sermon on the mount. In fact, Jesus held us up to a new and higher standard -- He said that even lustful thoughts in the heart are sinful. Divorce which the Jews allowed he declared to be against the will of God.

Can you honestly claim that Jesus put sodomy on the same level as double parking? He said that even lustful thoughts are sinful, but He was just fine with sodomy? This is self-serving dishonesty of the most reprehensible sort.

107 posted on 05/20/2003 9:15:28 AM PDT by Maximilian
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To: dogbyte12
Yes, homosexuality is decried in areas of the Bible...not by Jesus personally though.


Did not Jesus and the God of Moses claim to be one in the same? The God of Moses spoke of homosexuality in very black and white terms...A man shall not lay with another man as a woman, for it is an abommination unto me!

Homosexuals would not be to bright to look to Jesus for reassurance and approval of this dark lifestyle.
486 posted on 05/20/2003 6:14:04 PM PDT by dagoofyfoot
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