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WHY I’M A LIBERAL [AM: Yes, I know. I know]
aemedliberal ^

Posted on 05/20/2003 7:37:40 AM PDT by new spartacus

Sunday was a gorgeous day here in Los Angeles, clear, windy, just a hint of smoke from the fire up above Santa Clarita.

The SO – who is the “perfect pillion” as well as a pretty good rider herself – and I took the motorcycle out and spent the day with some friends riding through the canyons up there, and on the way I was strongly reminded of why I am a liberal.

First, the clean air.

The population of Southern California has gone up by about 60% since 1970, according to the Southern California Association of Governments. Auto ownership and use has grown faster, probably about 25% more, I’ll estimate, so we’re looking at a 75% increase in vehicle-miles. We’ve probably lost a bunch of manufacturing and refining, but employment is still a whole bunch higher than it was back then.

And I remember summer days in high school when you couldn’t see the end of my West LA block for the smog. Two-a-days in the pool at school when you spent the day with “aqualung”—a chest so sore you couldn’t raise your voice.

My sons haven’t had those problems (I am aware of the higher incidence of asthma, but there’s a bunch of interesting epidemiology on that). I don’t think their children will, either. Why?

The damn bureaucrats, and their command-and-control bureaucracy. Personally, I think there are more refined tools available to us in the Information Age … Precision Guided Munitions of regulation, rather than the crude daisy-cutters. But if we don’t regulate, we’ll choke.

Next, the infrastructure.

Our normal ride, up Bouquet Canyon, was closed due to the fire, so we rode up San Francisquito Canyon instead (past “A Place to Shoot”, a pretty decent firing range).

In the canyon you can see the remnants of William Mulholland’s last great project, the St. Francis Dam, which failed catastrophically in 1928, killing at least 500.

But Southern Californians live on the desert because of the infrastructure that gives us water, protects us from floods, lets us move around, etc. etc. etc.

I know that each of these is the heavy boot of man’s dominion over nature…but unless we are all willing to live like Gabrielinos, we need it.

And the infrastructure isn’t just physical, but social as well. I have a bachelor’s and a master’s from the University of California, and it is a truism the public university has changed people’s lives.

Finally, charity and hope.

We spent Saturday night at the annual fundraiser for the St. Joseph’s Center in Venice. This hasn’t been a brilliant year for us financially, but we managed to give some away anyway, and enjoyed the company of a bunch of people who were doing pretty much the same thing.

I’ve always felt that I was an economic liberal because I enjoyed my nice things less when I had to either worry about someone trying to hit me on the head and take them away, or eat my meal in the window of a restaurant while a starving family stood outside.

Look, I know that the biggest beneficiaries of the welfare programs in the last fifty years have been the people who work for the welfare departments.

I know that we’ve grown dysfunctional cultures like mold on bad French cheese.

But does it tell you we’ve accomplished something when the biggest nutritional problem among the very poor is obesity?


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: genewadingpool; hiimstupid; iamtoostupidtobreed; logicnotspokenhere; rosietookmyyellow; stupidandproudofit; villageidiot; zot
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To: new spartacus
First, the clean air.

Then why is Kyoto needed?

And the infrastructure isn’t just physical, but social as well. I have a bachelor’s and a master’s from the University of California, and it is a truism the public university has changed people’s lives.

Churning out liberals daily.

We spent Saturday night at the annual fundraiser for the St. Joseph’s Center in Venice. This hasn’t been a brilliant year for us financially, but we managed to give some away anyway, and enjoyed the company of a bunch of people who were doing pretty much the same thing.

I knew the warm fuzzy couldn't be far off....."we on the left are such wonderfully charitable people, we care so much more than those on the right....hey let's FORCE them to help us by increasing their taxes... yeah, that's the ticket!!

Look, I know that the biggest beneficiaries of the welfare programs in the last fifty years have been the people who work for the welfare departments.

I could have sworn it was you guys who fought us tooth and nail to change welfare.

But does it tell you we’ve accomplished something when the biggest nutritional problem among the very poor is obesity?

It tells me only that the system you people oppose has delivered, if the poor are less poor it is not because of your government programs.

81 posted on 05/20/2003 8:13:06 AM PDT by wayoverontheright
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To: Our man in washington
Change "Philadelphia Phillies" to "Houston Astros" and your argument makes perfect sense!
82 posted on 05/20/2003 8:13:39 AM PDT by circles
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To: Skywalk
I'd like to debate it but the author hardly makes any points.

I tried, too. The piece just kind of rambles. It's like trying to debate with somebody who keeps saying "So What?!"

83 posted on 05/20/2003 8:14:37 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: Under the Radar; new spartacus
Debate it amonst the Freepers? I will be very surprised if this poster replies to anything. That is, if he's not zotted.
84 posted on 05/20/2003 8:14:45 AM PDT by babaloo999
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To: new spartacus
Let's see... you listed clean air, infrastructure, hope and charity.

The first one I'll grant you... conservatives typically don't scream loud enough early enough on the environment, outside of hunters protecting their future. From time to time, I do appreciate having the Left help temper the Right. However, environmentalists have caused far more problems than they have helped solve because of their extremism. If nuclear technology were allow to grow normally, our dependence on foreign oil would be far diminished. (PA gets more than 1/4 of it energy from nuclear plants, despite the HUGE hurdles you people put up, and yet there have been zero deaths, injuries, or emergencies in decades.) It's safer than it has ever been, yet liberals have this irrational fear of some nuclear boogeyman. It's ridiculous, and hurts the nation.

Infrastructure: I can't help but think of the compliment bestowed upon the National Socialists of Germany: they kept the trains running on time. For the most part, if something is worth doing, a private enterprise will get the job done. Government does contract for important things like dams, but there's nothing liberal or conservative about that... the only difference that is apparent to me is that liberals want a BIG government to do LOTS of infrastruture projects. Unfortunately, they have to steal LOTS of our money to do it. "That government which governs least, governs best." The more you ask government to do for you, the less freedom you have. It's a bad road to be on, but you can turn around at any time.

Hope: to be perfectly frank, the liberal movement only brings hopelessness. Look at the race issue. It is far better than it has ever been in this country, and yet liberals today specifically state that it is as bad as ever. Where is the hope in that? Liberals love to punish those who become financially successful through their own hard work. How does that inspire hope to the poor? Liberals think that abortion is the one "right" that should have no limits. What hope does abortion bring to anyone? Liberals want to take away my guns. How can I ever hope to protect my family if I can be out-muscled by any two teenagers? How does wanting to imitate the utter failure of Socialism bring a hopeful future for the nation?

Charity. Here is your biggest misnomer. It is NOT charity on your part to help vote my dollars away from me into the pockets of others. Charity is when you use your own dollars and labor to help others. Forcing me at gunpoint (and those IRS agents ARE armed) to contribute to your favorite progerams is oppression, not charity. Free individuals who keep the fruits of their labors and use them to help others become independent out of the goodness of their hearts (or with their church, which liberals also seek to incapacitate and replace) are the definition of charity... NOT the force of government giving bare handouts to merely keep the poor dependent.

Finally, the implication that clean air, infrastructure, hope, and charity are not conservative concerns or traits is childishly naive. It is those very same conservative principles of self-help, keeping what you earn, freedom from government intrusion, that define the American Dream and compels millions of people to come here every year. Liberal paradises like Sweden, France, and Canada never see this kind of immigration, for one specific reason... American is the land of Hope and Opportunity, expressly because of those conservative, capitalistic principles. History and millions of immigrants show that Conservatism is the ideology of hope, not liberalism.

85 posted on 05/20/2003 8:15:56 AM PDT by Teacher317
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To: new spartacus
The population of Southern California has gone up by about 60% since 1970, ....And I remember summer days in high school when you couldn’t see the end of my West LA block for the smog. Two-a-days in the pool at school when you spent the day with “aqualung”—a chest so sore you couldn’t raise your voice.

Yeah, and what exactly does this have to do with liberalism? I grew up in L.A. too, and I remember the smog-filled lung-hurting days as well. The worst of the air pollution problem was during ultra-liberal Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown's tenure as Governor.

What makes you think conservatives are against reasonable environmental regulations on pollution? We like to drink clean water and breath clean air too, you know. Most conservatives are conservationists. Liberals aren't any more concerned about pollution than we are; their main concern is with getting as many people on the government dole as possible, creating a class of serfs.

86 posted on 05/20/2003 8:17:01 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: Spruce
Sniffing glue migh also cause liberalism. Products of their environment I guess.
87 posted on 05/20/2003 8:17:38 AM PDT by Dead Dog (There are no minority rights in a democracy. 51% get's 49%'s stuff.)
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To: babaloo999
I think he's not getting ZOT-ted because a few of us have asked that they leave the trolls alone for a while to see if they'll come out and play. This one apparently is a hit-and-run type. They confuse me. Why post on a discussion forum if you know it will be read and responded to, unless you want to respond as well? What's the point in posting and running? Do they just like to read the responses? What's the fun in getting insulted, teased, or having your thoughts dissected and debunked? If they don't read the replies, then why post at all?
88 posted on 05/20/2003 8:20:53 AM PDT by Teacher317
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To: new spartacus
Huh? What are your reasons? I seemed to have missed it in your diatribe.
89 posted on 05/20/2003 8:21:20 AM PDT by Maigrey (Member of the Dose's Jesus Freaks, TAB Republicans, and Gonzo News Service)
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To: Admin Moderator
Thank you sir, may I have another! ;^)
90 posted on 05/20/2003 8:22:48 AM PDT by Teacher317
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To: Bikers4Bush
You asked?

And you shall receive.
91 posted on 05/20/2003 8:23:02 AM PDT by Maigrey (Member of the Dose's Jesus Freaks, TAB Republicans, and Gonzo News Service)
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To: Teacher317
This one apparently is a hit-and-run type.
The thing you have been missing is that it is the same guy (or guys, if there happen to be a few sharing the same resources), day after day.

Do we occasionally get different trolls? Yes. But about 90% of the newbie trolls trace back to the same two ISPs.

92 posted on 05/20/2003 8:25:05 AM PDT by Admin Moderator
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93 posted on 05/20/2003 8:25:47 AM PDT by new spartacus
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To: new spartacus

94 posted on 05/20/2003 8:26:32 AM PDT by unixfox (Close the borders, problems solved!)
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To: wjcsux
Although not discussed very much, the reason California has become so liberal in the last 10 years is that approximately 2,000,000 conservative voters left the state for places like Idaho, Montana, Colorado, Arizona, etc. when they saw the writing on the wall here. I have seen an article on this in USA Today and I believe Michael Barone has discussed this demographic shift as well. Few other new outlets, however, have reported on this conservative flight from California. Unfortunately, probably more conservative voters are going to leave in the next 10 years as the business climate gets even worse.
95 posted on 05/20/2003 8:27:31 AM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: Teacher317
conservatives typically don't scream loud enough early enough on the environment, outside of hunters protecting their future

I don't agree and doubt you could cite many examples

Infrastructure: I can't help but think of the compliment bestowed upon the National Socialists of Germany: they kept the trains running on time.

Yes, but where does this "liberal" get the idea that "liberals" do even that? All I know is that where I live, freeways are jammed. One reason is that "liberals" about 15-20 years ago decided to block off one lane of each freeway from general use and call it a "carpool lane", in effect shrinking the freeway. That's a typical "liberal" approach to infrastructure.

96 posted on 05/20/2003 8:27:31 AM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: new spartacus
yes I am. Thanks for asking.
97 posted on 05/20/2003 8:27:34 AM PDT by discostu (A cow don't make ham)
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To: new spartacus; Teacher317
Hey! He replied! Good dog.

Funny thing- had Bush just let the Iraqis set more oil wells on fire, Halliburton would have made much more of a killing on rebuilding from the damage, and other oil companies would have made a killing from the higher prices.

Of course, were Bush what you propagandists said, he would have ordered the wells set on fire and blamed it on the Iraqis.

98 posted on 05/20/2003 8:30:03 AM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: new spartacus
Cute poster but you still haven't presented a complete thought. Are you dumb?
99 posted on 05/20/2003 8:31:18 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (If you're looking for a friend, get a dog.)
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To: Teacher317
I'm glad you had the patience to rebutt this wanderers' "points".

Myself, I find it frustrating to swing at hot air.

100 posted on 05/20/2003 8:31:45 AM PDT by Gritty
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