Posted on 05/19/2003 8:10:22 PM PDT by webber
ISSUE: Ever heard of the First Amendment?
Apparently, it doesn't apply if you're in church.
There are limits to what your preacher can say from the pulpit -- limits placed there by the government. Now, a bill introduced in Congress seeks to change the law.
If a church speaks out on issues that the IRS deems to be too political, it risks losing its tax-exempt status. But the "Houses of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act" (H.R. 235) would repeal the authority of the Internal Revenue Service to revoke the tax status of a church, temple, or mosque whose clergy speak out.
Rep. Walter Jones (R-NC), who introduced the bill, explained how the problem of churches speaking out on political issues arose.
"Lyndon Johnson in 1954 put an amendment on a revenue bill that stifled the ministers, priests and rabbis from being able to speak of moral and political issues," Jones said. "That's not what America's about. America's about freedom. And we've got to have freedom in the churches." He said Johnson's amendment has had a chilling effect that fails to define where their speech is actually protected. He also contended the restrictions have not been impartially enforced.
"I think all churches should be treated the same," Jones said. "They should have freedom to talk about these issues."
ACTION ITEM: All houses of worship SHOULD be treated the same. They should have freedom to talk about any issues affecting any aspect of society -- including politics. Anything else is simply un-American.
As Rep. Jones stated, "This legislation goes beyond party lines and theological debates. We must not allow a government institution to have this kind of chilling effect over America's churches."
Rep. Jones' bill is supported by religious leaders from all faiths, and he now has over 120 co-sponsors on this simple straightforward legislation that will finally give back to churches and other houses of worship what was unjustly taken from them 49 years ago: the freedom to speak however they feel led to speak, whether the issue is construed as political or not.
Go to our site below to ask your Representative to support H.R. 235, the "Houses of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act":
NOTE: Please be sure to forward this to everyone you know that wants to see free speech rights apply to ALL Americans, in EVERY situation.
Thank you!
When all is said and done, it's a matter of faith.
Reminds me of preachers that have their wives and daughters review their "messages" to make sure there is nothing offensive there. That has nothing at all to do with the government and these "preachers" are more than happy to hide behind government rules.
First, churches are not at all prevented from speaking aout on any moral or politcal issue of the day. Those who claim they are are either woefully misguided or lying.
However, if they are registered as a 501(c)(3), i.e. non-profit, church then they are forbidden from endorsing candidates, most political lobbying, etc. This is the same exact rule/law for every single 501(c)(3) organization in the U.S. from the ACLU to the NRA.
It's not required anywhere in U.S. law that a church register as a non-profit organization. If a church does want to endorse a candidate, lobby, etc they can either deregister themselves or form a 501(c)(4) -- which is exactly what the ACLU, NRA and thousands of other organizations have done.
Instead, supporters of this bill want to carve out a special exemption for themselves -- and not other non-profit organizations -- so that they won't have to pay taxes but can still engage in political activity when, again, the real answer is to deregister or register with the IRS in a slightly different manner.
BIG BUMP for Rep. Walter Jones Jr. of North Carolina. He's an outstanding congressman and maybe we can get this bill passed.
I think we're missing the hidden purpose here. There are muslim clerics across this country, that are talking about jihad. Talking about our society and how they should tear it down and install sharia law. This is what is being talked about.
Surely you don't really think LBJ had any such noble purpose in mind.
Not whether my local pastor is talking about the Book of Daniel, the Second Coming, and how todays political make up sure looks like the end days.
Huh? I don't think anyone's suggesting the IRS rules make any of those topics the least bit off-limits.
My pastor can talk about the ME, our actions, etc, in relation to the bible.
But, if he wants to maintain tax-exempt status, he'd dare not preach about why, for instance, it would be a great idea to vote for Candidate A and/or a terrible thing to vote for Candidate B.
He cannot tell me to take up arms against our own government.
Passing this bill will not change the fact that conspiracy is a crime. The bill has nothing to do with crime. We're talking about tax exemptions and limits on free speech, about preachers and churches having the freedom to suggest that their congregations vote for or against specific political candidates or parties. Again, the only thing "silencing" churches today is their own lack of faith (some probably call it stewardship). My advice to all faithful churches is this: If something needs to be said, say it. The Lord is faithful; He has always provided for His own in their time of need.
There are some christian sects that speak of ZOG, and to overthrow our own governments. But mainly, I think they are seeking to deport those muslim clerics that speak warmly of jihad, violence, and the "inevitable" spread of Islam.
Maybe I totally missed the point you were trying to make in your post.
Are you for extending the bill to cover all 501(c)(3) non-profits or do you think that churches should be granted special considerations that others wouldn't receive?
We have become so inculcated with the notion of duty through taxation as to accept it as easily as baseball, and apple pie.
The Houses of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act would allow religious leaders to speak from their pulpits however they see fit without fear of losing their tax-exempt status. The bill was introduced with thirteen original cosponsors, including Rep. Robin Hayes of North Carolina's 8th district; the Majority Whip, Roy Blunt; and the Majority Leader, Tom DeLay.
Then you should tell your priest to either deregister as a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization or to register as a 501(c)(4) & pay some taxes. It really is that simple.
It's what every single other non-profit organization that wants to involve themselves in the political process has done --- and it doesn't require passing any new laws.
However, if the bill was amended to include all 501(c)(3) orgs, it would mean that the ACLU, People for the American Way, Planned Parenthood, etc could all lobby, endorse, etc without paying any taxes. That would be the consequence of extending the bill to everyone.
As it is now, non-profit churches are treated exactly the same way as everyone else under these laws -- isn't that what people always say they want? -- for churches to be treated the same as everyone else?
Um . . . no, I think liberals might say that, except they'd say they want churches to be treated harsher than everyone else.
If you want to tax churches, fine, have 'em pay their $5 in taxes as long as you give 'em a 50% tax credit for all their good works. So the government is now paying churches billions of dollars so that churches have the right to free speech.
Taxing churches, restricting their speech . . . what a crock!!!
Were these books used as a result of Jefferson, or instituted very shortly after his departure from public life? History is unclear on this point, which can be debated ad nauseum, but one fact is glaringly unchallenged.
That fact is that during our early years as a newly-founded nation, the Bible was one of the books, and the only religious text, taught in our public schools.
That fact alone gives lie to the neo-liberal-concept of "Separation of Church and State" as it is abused today, and gives truth to America's having been founded as a Christian nation.
;-/
I would find it very hard to believe that Jefferson would recommend or mandate the Bible being taught in public schools given a) his distaste for the New Testament and b) the way he set up the theology department to be separate from the rest of the university at the University of Virginia.
Sorry. "That fact alone" conveniently ignores that Jefferson was a Deist, not a Christian, and that one of the achievements he asked to have on his gravestone was authorship of Virginia's Statute of Religious Freedom, which says in part:
WE the General Assembly of Virginia do enact that no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil rights.
While many of the Founders were Christians, they didn't establish a Christian nation, or a Judeo-Christian nation or anything of the sort.
They established a FREE nation.
Can you name one single church that has ever run afoul of the IRS for preaching the Gospel?
This legislation is a fix for a problem that simply does not exist. Any misconceptions about what registered churches are allowed/not allowed to do can be cleared up pretty simply through education -- not passing yet more unnecessary laws -- something conservatives should unite in opposing.
Unless, of course, some people who are for this legislation merely want to grant an advantage to churches that every other 501 (c)(3) non-profit would not enjoy.
Whether they were Congregational, Baptist, Lutheran, or other, they were all Christian. Every single State.
Both houses of our Congress open every session with prayer from a Chaplain. Always have. Since their inception.
For centuries, every Court in our nation had every person giving testimony at trial only after having sworn an oath on the Bible.
Our very curreny tells us "IN GOD WE TRUST." Not Buddah. Not Allah. Not Krishna.
GOD. As found where? In the Bible.
And, George Washington (you know, the "Father of America") created the Holiday (Holy Day) of Thanksgiving at the joint request of both the House and the Senate, saying this:
George Washington’s Thanksgiving Proclamation.
"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"
"Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted' for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and, in general, for all the great and various favors which He has been pleased to confer upon us."
"And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions; to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have show kindness to us), and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as He alone knows to be best."
Given under my hand, at the city of New York, the 3d dy of October, A.D. 1789.
(signed) G. Washington
The longest-living Founding Father was John Quincy Adams. As such, he was a much sought after speaker for patriotic events. On July 4, 1837, he made a very astute observation. He said:
"Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day? Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the Progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth?"
"That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity and gave to the world the first irrevocable pledge of the fulfillment of the prophecies announced directly from Heaven at the birth of the Savior and predicted by the greatest of the Hebrew prophets 600 years before?"
Sound 'Christian' to you? Yeah, me too.
Tilt at windmills 'til you're blue in the face, it won't change the fact that America was founded as a Christian Nation.
I have no need to tilt at windmills as I have the ability to read.
"In God We Trust" was added to paper currency in the 1950s.
"under God" was added to the pledge of allegiance in the 1950s.
During debate over the wording of the Declaration of Independence, a motion was made to add the words "Our Lord Jesus Christ" after the word "Creator". It was defeated.
Franklin was a Deist. Paine was a Deist. Jefferson was a Deist.
Our Founders created a free nation, where people were free to practice Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, or no religion at all.
If you are saying America is a "Christian nation" because most of the people who live here are Christian, of one denomination or another, then you're right.
If you're saying America is a "Christian nation" because you think it's some kind of theocracy invented to propagate Christianity, you couldn't be further from the truth.
Whether they were Congregational, Baptist, Lutheran, or other, they were all Christian. Every single State.
Ha. You pretend as if everyone back then was in complete agreement regarding what it meant to be a "Christian" and that all were welcomed.
If that's the case, it certainly doesn't explain state laws -- written and passed by others claiming to be true Christians -- that unfairly targeted everyone from Catholics to Baptists to Presbyterians to Quakers.
If we were such a lovey-dovey "Christian" nation than how do you explain:
* Laws by many states that forbade various Christians from holding office?
* Laws requiring that tax monies and/or goods be used to fund churches & clergy of only one or two Christian denominations but excluding all others?
* Laws that forbade people of certain Christian denominations from holding certain jobs (i.e. attorneys, etc)
and any of the other countless laws that punished many Christians for not being adherents of the majority Christian denomination.
To say that we were founded as a "Christian" nation is to conveniently ignore the fact that "Christian" is only what the powers-that-be said it was, much to the chagrin of many other denominations who, in 2003, we would never dream of saying "aren't Christian".
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