"Houses of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act" (H.R. 235)

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[TradicalRC]

You still did not answer the question: who in the Church does NOT pay taxes? Everyone (including the priest) that I know does.

[Dave S]

You still did not answer the question: who in the Church does NOT pay taxes? Everyone (including the priest) that I know does

And they are all free to raise hell about any topic they want when they leave church property and dont act as a church. Its the same kind of thing with congress. They are all citizens and pay taxes but they cant call donors and request contributions while on Federal property. Its against the law. Conducting political discussion inside a church granted tax exempt status, you voluntarily gave up that right. If you dont like it, give up your tax exempt status. Dont you keep your agreements?

[Arkinsaw]

I thought that freedom of speech was an inalienable right, even in Church. Is it a right that must be purchased from the government? Are THEY the source of our rights?

Churches can choose to be political organizations and be treated as political organizations rather than masquerade as churches. They can politicize as much as they want, advocate socialist positions, whatever. Inalienable. But if they choose to be political organizations they get treated like them.

If you want moneylending go to a bank, not a temple. If you want a political action go to a political action committee and not a Church. If you want government socialist social experimentation go to the Democratic party, and not a denomination headquarters.

[TradicalRC]

I'm not sure what "agreement" you're talking about: according to this thread, this was something imposed by LBJ way back when.

Was there some meeting of churches that signed an agreement that I am unaware of?

[TradicalRC]

I had been unaware that in the U.S. of A. that when I step onto Church property I give up my right to freedom of speech. I cannot believe that that is a law.

I can understand why government officials cannot seek political donors on property paid for by taxpayers but Church property is private and private property is the mainstay of freedom of speech.

BTW, you did not answer my question: Is the freedom of speech an inalienable right or must it be purchased from the government? Is the government the SOURCE of our rights?

[DPB101]

Unitarians are what they are today because of what they were back then.

No doubt about that. It took a while but the path was certain. The laissez faire"free thinkers" of Jefferson's Unitarianism became statists not long after his death. They created the first government schools. Then they embraced German transcendentalism, marxism, eugenics, abortion, euthanasia. No wonder Wiccans attend the church today. They set out to create the Kingdom of God on earth by works. We know how that turns out. Could have been worse though. It usually is.

[risk]

How did Murray Straus come up with his calculations?

All interesting questions, but you missed my point: gagging recalls lynching. Lynchings happened. That much is a tragedy, and King was instrumental in transitioning America beyond its Jim Crow days.

But I must say that your questions in this context bring to mind Holocaust denial. They continue asking the same kinds of questions when the point is never to let it happen again.

[Dave S]

I'm not sure what "agreement" you're talking about: according to this thread, this was something imposed by LBJ way back when. Was there some meeting of churches that signed an agreement that I am unaware of?

No there was no meeting that Im aware of but your church leaders had to file a form to qualify for tax exempt status. Filing that form indicates agreement to the conditions on which the exemption is granted.

[Dave S]

Is the freedom of speech an inalienable right or must it be purchased from the government? Is the government the SOURCE of our rights?

Assuming there is a God then freedom of speech is a right, not something granted by the goverenment. However, like all rights, they are rights of individual citizens, not non-citizen entities like churches or corporations. In addition, no rights are absolute. There are limitations on what you can say, when and where you can meet, what firearms you can own, etc.

[DPB101]

And all the liberal sites repeat the canard. Strange became American liberalism itself arose from Harvard Unitarianism. In many respects, the faith has more to do with the old Testament than the new. Paul is hardly mentioned at all. Jesus was the reforming good rabbi who expanded the Jewish faith to everyone. Only His words and moral imperatives were important. The colonists were the new Israelites hewing a new world from the wilderness. New England was the center of Unitarianism and today many small towns, named after Old Testament towns or figures show the influence. Old Testament names were popular for children as well.

Jefferson was a religious nut--a Christian religious nut. What other sort of person would decide the New Testament needed to be annotated to purify it and restore it to its' correct teachings?

[Gargantua]

"The Founders specifically disallowed the Congress from making ANY law with respect to religion,"

Wrong... again.

Congress is Constitutionally prohibited from passing any law regarding the establishment of a religion. You can't get even the most rudimentary of facts straight, can you?

;-/

[DPB101]

This came to be known as the "John-and-Mary" rule in English-speaking countries, which in the Protestant tradition were quickly being populated with Daniels and Hannahs and Sarahs and Isaacs!

Of course! I wasn't aware of the history of it but Papists were definately on the minds of New Englanders. In the early 1970s, I purchased a lot in a very small town way off the main highways in New Hampshire, 60 miles from the Canadian border. Very quickly I was told of the local Klu Klux Klan chapter. Huh? The Klan in the White Mountains? What is this all about?

It was about Catholics. They were the threat to the American Republic in the "Live Free or Die" State.

[TradicalRC]

The holocaust denial comment was a cheap shot. Nothing is beyond questioning. The holocaust of course, DID happen but the numbers HAVE been monkeyed with and I would like to know why.

There is more to these things than meet the eye and when you want to get to the truth of the matter you get called a Nazi or Fascist or some other nonsense. The fact that you believe that some things should not be questioned shows how successful the left has been at controlling the debate.

And yes, there are people who seem to make a living at pointing out what a racist country America is even though many blue-eyed devils died to end slavery, we ended Jim Crow, did away with segregation, put in place equal opportunity and affirmative action programs and whitey still has to hear about how racist we ARE.

Sorry, but it is time to question the "Conventional Wisdom" about a lot of things.

[risk]

I do apologize for taking a cheap shot. It wasn't constructive at all.

[webber]

I echo my statement: You anti-God bigots are a bunch of hippocrits when it comes to the God of Abraham, Isaac, an Jacob. You can say you're conservative, but when it comes to churches, religion, and morality, you're goats in sheep's clothing. You do this without blinking an eye because you are not accountable to a higher moral authority than yourself. So whatever YOU say is ok is ok, and whatever YOU say is not ok is not ok. That's the bottom line. Changing the subject will not let you off the hook.

[webber]

The 501c3 exemption only deals with religion. That's why no other group is affected. If there was a government regulation on swearing in public, and those who do will be fined by paying an extra 50% more tax than people who don't (hypothetical of course) who do you think would be affected, the Church? Then see how many non-believers would start whining about unfair treatment, the regulation being unconstitutional. This is the same gag rule being placed on the Churches. Taxes exemption should not be based on what you say or don't say from the pulpit, it should be based on whether you are a non-profit organization...PERIOD!!!