Posted on 05/16/2003 10:15:46 AM PDT by klpt
The Pentagon on Thursday ordered 11 new V-22 Osprey aircraft for $817 million, giving a boost to a program plagued by deadly crashes and other problems.
The program had been in danger of being eliminated after 23 Marines died in crashes during testing in 2000. The aircraft's maker, a joint venture between Boeing Co. and Textron Inc.'s Bell Helicopter unit, had to redesign parts of the aircraft to fix hydraulic and other problems.
The Osprey has fixed wings and propellors that can tilt upward so the craft can take off and land like a helicopter, then tilt forward so it can fly like an airplane. The Marine Corps wants to use the Osprey as a replacement for its aging fleet of transport helicopters. The Air Force and Navy are interested in using the Osprey, too.
A December 2000 crash in North Carolina that killed four Marines was blamed on a design flaw that allowed electrical and hydraulic lines to rub together while the rotors were being tilted, causing the hydraulic lines to burst.
The hydraulic and electrical lines have been rerouted to solve that problem, the Pentagon said in a statement.
The deadliest crash was blamed on an aerodynamic condition called "vortex ring state" that happened during an unusually rapid descent. Nineteen Marines died in that April 2000 crash near Tucson, Ariz.
The Pentagon ordered another round of testing for the Osprey after the redesign, and military officials have said those tests have gone well. Ordering 11 more Ospreys to be built is a signal that the program has passed those tests.
The Osprey has a longer range and flies faster and more quietly than the Marines' current fleet of transport helicopters.
The new Ospreys will be built at factories in Ridley Park, Penn., and Fort Worth and Amarillo, Texas.
No, no, no. Belabor away!
I posted those comments to head off the inevetable carping and whining from the "experts" around here who always show up on these threads to tell us why something won't work, but never what will.
I was hoping people would add examples. Thanks for the great input.
Well, if I'm not mistaken, it was increased training emphasizing the weaknesses of the Marauder that helped lower the fatality rate.
Amazing what you can do telling pilots what they CAN'T do.
Brownout testing
Since the V-22's small rotors produce three times more downwash than helicopters, many pilots have expressed concern about "brownouts", which occur when dirt and dust fill the air blocking all vision. (note the water in the photo above) The U.S. military has damaged several helicopters in Afghanistan when hard landing occurred due to brownouts. The extent of this problem with the V-22 appears serious, but according section 3.2.6.2 of the Report to Congress: "The planned development testing does not include unimproved site ops where brownout is typically encountered..." The reports suggests that brownouts can be avoided by using "non-hover landings".
The Osprey is unarmed
Even if a new device allows a V-22 to safely and SLOWLY descend into a combat landing zone; this is where 91% of combat losses occur. Transports have a "door gunner" on each side who shoot a rapid-fire machine gun (called mini-guns, right) at enemy positions below to "suppress" enemy fires. When several helicopters land in formation, the volume of fire pouring down is impressive. However, the V-22 will have no door gunners because the tandem rotor design blocks half their view and field of fire. No one wants a door gunner attempting to shoot around a massive rotor and wing sticking out the side of an aircraft; the rotor wash would affect his accuracy anyway.
The V-22 program has dodged this issue. The original explanation was that it could be added later in the program. In the 1990s, they convinced marine corps leaders that a gun could make the pilot too aggressive, thus endangering his passengers. When General Jones become Commandant in 1999, he insisted the V-22 must have a gun to provide suppressive fire. As a result, Jones was told a rapid fire GAU-19 .50 caliber machine gun would be mounted on a turret under the nose and fired by the co-pilot. (similar to the 20mm gun on the Cobra attack helo at left) This is not a simple task since the 608lbs GAU-19 with several hundred rounds of ammunition and the electric pivoting nose chin will take a lot of space under the crowded cockpit. The extra of weight and bulbous chin will also reduce speed and performance.
The past 16-month delay for the V-22 redesign was the ideal time to add the gun into the test aircraft. This is important because the gun's weight and vibration while firing will affect aircraft performance. Since the GAU-19 is a proven gun, there is no reason to delay. However, testing will resume without the GAU-19. In fact, the current plan delays adding the gun until the very end of testing in 2008. The Bell-Boeing team may imply the GAU-19 is something which can just be bolted on at the very end. If its that simple, why not bolt it on now? Obviously, there is a major problem with adding the GAU-19, so Bell-Boeing will continue to dodge this issue until it goes away. As a result, if a safe V-22 is ever developed, it will fly into combat completed unarmed. Since the V-22s are much faster than the Cobra attack helicopters that escort transports, they will have to fly as slow as helicopters and negate their only advantage.
The Tilt-rotor may Tilt sideways aboard ship
While in flight "the location of the engines, gear boxes and rotors at the wing tips causes relatively high roll and yaw inertia". This is a direct quote from NATOPS section 9.2. This also causes serious problems aboard ship. The roll of a ship or gusts from nearby aircraft can cause a V-22 on ship to tilt over on the deck and squash sailors and Marines nearby. A NAVAIR report by Kurt Long -pdf states this danger is "VERY significant" and "...could prohibit ALL shipboard ops." This problem was ignored in the redesign because no solution exists.
Fewer V-22s can fit on ship
Few people realize the V-22 weighs almost as much as the powerful CH-53E, which can carry twice as much. The V-22 can automatically perform a contortionist routine to save space, although maintenance officers cringe when shown the photo at right. They know that after a few years of wear and countless automatic folds, every moving part eventually breaks.
Nevertheless, Navy ships can only carry so much weight before they become unstable. This is particularly important for objects high on ship, like on the flight deck. As a result, some Marine leaders have just discovered the Corps cannot deploy twelve V-22s aboard ship with a standard MEU composite squadron. So assuming that V-22s ever become safe, a MEU can deploy with no more than eight V-22s, instead of today's twelve smaller CH-46Es. Actually, the CH-46E has more internal cargo space than the V-22, it just weighs much less.
This is why the LHA/LHD Replacement program recently emerged. Some people want to spend billions of dollars to design a new class of bigger flattop amphibs just to carry a MEU composite squadron with twelve V-22s, rather than continuing to buy modern LHDs. The LHDs are already larger than any World War II aircraft carriers, and larger than any foreign aircraft carriers. Even if this expensive idea for larger ships is adopted, it will be ten years before the first appears in the Fleet, and 35 years before the last "undersized" LHD retires, along with the last V-22s.
The Navy MH-60S is superior
Recently, Congress began asking about alternatives to the V-22. The marine corps dodged this issue, then offered the European EH-101 as a possibility, knowing that Congress would never support the purchase of a foreign aircraft. The Corps ignored the new Sikorsky S-92 helicopter, which has been sold to Ireland and Communist China. It claimed it would take years to develop a "navalized" version of the Army Blackhawk, ignoring the Navy HH-60H Seahawk, which has been in service for years, and an advanced version, the MH-60S Knighthawk, which just entered Navy service. The Knighthawk can carry a crew of four and 13 passengers or 10,000lbs of cargo, which is twice the payload of the older CH-60A "Blackhawk in service with the U.S. Army.
The marine corps can simply sign a production contract to join in the Navy buy for Knighthawks in FY2003. Navy H-60 spare parts and training programs have been functioning for years, and the Corps already operates eight VH-60s as part of the Presidential helicopter squadron. If the marine corps joined the Army, Navy, and Air Force by adopting the Sikorsky H-60 series for basic transport, all services would save money and improve interoperability. This year, the Navy bought 17 MH-60S for $17 million each, they would cost even less if purchased at a higher rate with a joint marine corps buy. The MH-60S can carry almost as much as the MV-22, at one-sixth the price. The Navy is impressed with the MH-60S and will use them to replace their CH-46D helicopters, rather than buying 48 HV-22s.
Adopting the H-60 design would allow the marine corps to add a new capability by modifying some MH-60S as EH-60E electronic warfare or MH-60Q Medi-vac helicopters, using components already in service with the Army. The Corps can also buy some MH-60Ks (right), which have larger fuel tanks and refueling probes which allow it to fly much farther than the MV-22. Another advantage is that the MH-60S is equipped to carry 16 Hellfire anti-tank missiles. This would quadruple the airborne anti-tank firepower of the marine corps. For example, MEU composite squadrons which the Corps maintains forward-deployed include four Cobra attack helicopters which could be supported by twelve MH-60S carrying Hellfires and machine guns.
What happened? Passenger fall out?
Are you sure about this assertion? The first flight by Orville Wright was December 17, 1903, followed by two more that day with Wilbur taking his turn. Wilbur died in 1912, just as the airplane was beginning to make great advances. Orville worked on alone and in 1913 won the Collier Trophy for a device to automatically balance airplanes. In 1915 he sold his interest in the Wright Company, and continued work on the development of aviation in his own shop. In 1929, he received the first Daniel Guggenheim Medal for his and Wilbur's contributions to the advancement of aeronautics. He died on January 30, 1948. I always assumed it was of natural causes.
For Colonel Dunn, USAF. He is telling it like it is. I NEVER understood why the V-22 was so damned critical to future Marine operations.
• Sept. 17, 1908: Lt. Thomas Selfridge is the first passenger killed in a plane crash, when a Wright Flyer piloted by Orville crashes during Army tests at Fort Myer, Va.
My dear Smedley, why don't you tell us what you REALLLY THINK!
So tell is in detail where the V-22 is superior in the particulars to the MH-60s? And what about the door-gunner issue? This damn bird is pretty old now, and they STILL haven't tested it with the GAU-19. And as for VRC, it IS a problem for helos...and particularly one with small rotors...
Retired Colonel Harry P. Dunn is out of the loop and his opinions, one has to wonder what ax he is grinding, are at odds with the overwhelming majority of people who actually know what they are talking about. '"The terrain and elevation in Afghanistan have validated our need for the capability of an aircraft like the CV-22," Air Force Lt. Gen. Paul Hester, commander of Air Force Special Operations Command (AFSOC), last week told a National Defense Industrial Association Special Operations and Low-Intensity Conflict symposium audeince in Arlington, Va. "We need the technology that this aircraft offers and I am excited that testing is going to begin soon with our Marine brothers' [MV-22 variant]. We need to get on with making sure this program becomes a reality. The requirement is fairly clear, we revalidated it." ... During one mission, AFSOC launched MH-53s from a base 490 miles from the target zone. That flight took nine hours to complete, with three aerial refuelings events. The mission was flown "at the extreme upper limits of our MH-53s flight regime," Hester said, "within the lethal envelope of every air defense in the country [such as ZSU-23/4 anti-aircraft artillery]." "CV-22 on the other hand... would have flown the mission in half the time, without aerial refueling and would have been above almost every defense threat in that country," he added.' SOCOM holds to CV-22 requirement by Hunter Keeler, Defense Daily, February 13, 2002
Seriously, if Boeing wanted to build confidence in the aircraft they should keep a few for regular use by their corporate officers.
And I really do hope they got the bugs worked out and the thing fixed.
In other words, you don't know and can't.
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