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To: klpt
Comments from Colonel Dunn USAF

Brownout testing

Since the V-22's small rotors produce three times more downwash than helicopters, many pilots have expressed concern about "brownouts", which occur when dirt and dust fill the air blocking all vision. (note the water in the photo above) The U.S. military has damaged several helicopters in Afghanistan when hard landing occurred due to brownouts. The extent of this problem with the V-22 appears serious, but according section 3.2.6.2 of the Report to Congress: "The planned development testing does not include unimproved site ops where brownout is typically encountered..." The reports suggests that brownouts can be avoided by using "non-hover landings".

The Osprey is unarmed

Even if a new device allows a V-22 to safely and SLOWLY descend into a combat landing zone; this is where 91% of combat losses occur. Transports have a "door gunner" on each side who shoot a rapid-fire machine gun (called mini-guns, right) at enemy positions below to "suppress" enemy fires. When several helicopters land in formation, the volume of fire pouring down is impressive. However, the V-22 will have no door gunners because the tandem rotor design blocks half their view and field of fire. No one wants a door gunner attempting to shoot around a massive rotor and wing sticking out the side of an aircraft; the rotor wash would affect his accuracy anyway.

The V-22 program has dodged this issue. The original explanation was that it could be added later in the program. In the 1990s, they convinced marine corps leaders that a gun could make the pilot too aggressive, thus endangering his passengers. When General Jones become Commandant in 1999, he insisted the V-22 must have a gun to provide suppressive fire. As a result, Jones was told a rapid fire GAU-19 .50 caliber machine gun would be mounted on a turret under the nose and fired by the co-pilot. (similar to the 20mm gun on the Cobra attack helo at left) This is not a simple task since the 608lbs GAU-19 with several hundred rounds of ammunition and the electric pivoting nose chin will take a lot of space under the crowded cockpit. The extra of weight and bulbous chin will also reduce speed and performance.

The past 16-month delay for the V-22 redesign was the ideal time to add the gun into the test aircraft. This is important because the gun's weight and vibration while firing will affect aircraft performance. Since the GAU-19 is a proven gun, there is no reason to delay. However, testing will resume without the GAU-19. In fact, the current plan delays adding the gun until the very end of testing in 2008. The Bell-Boeing team may imply the GAU-19 is something which can just be bolted on at the very end. If its that simple, why not bolt it on now? Obviously, there is a major problem with adding the GAU-19, so Bell-Boeing will continue to dodge this issue until it goes away. As a result, if a safe V-22 is ever developed, it will fly into combat completed unarmed. Since the V-22s are much faster than the Cobra attack helicopters that escort transports, they will have to fly as slow as helicopters and negate their only advantage.

The Tilt-rotor may Tilt sideways aboard ship

While in flight "the location of the engines, gear boxes and rotors at the wing tips causes relatively high roll and yaw inertia". This is a direct quote from NATOPS section 9.2. This also causes serious problems aboard ship. The roll of a ship or gusts from nearby aircraft can cause a V-22 on ship to tilt over on the deck and squash sailors and Marines nearby. A NAVAIR report by Kurt Long -pdf states this danger is "VERY significant" and "...could prohibit ALL shipboard ops." This problem was ignored in the redesign because no solution exists.

Fewer V-22s can fit on ship

Few people realize the V-22 weighs almost as much as the powerful CH-53E, which can carry twice as much. The V-22 can automatically perform a contortionist routine to save space, although maintenance officers cringe when shown the photo at right. They know that after a few years of wear and countless automatic folds, every moving part eventually breaks.

Nevertheless, Navy ships can only carry so much weight before they become unstable. This is particularly important for objects high on ship, like on the flight deck. As a result, some Marine leaders have just discovered the Corps cannot deploy twelve V-22s aboard ship with a standard MEU composite squadron. So assuming that V-22s ever become safe, a MEU can deploy with no more than eight V-22s, instead of today's twelve smaller CH-46Es. Actually, the CH-46E has more internal cargo space than the V-22, it just weighs much less.

This is why the LHA/LHD Replacement program recently emerged. Some people want to spend billions of dollars to design a new class of bigger flattop amphibs just to carry a MEU composite squadron with twelve V-22s, rather than continuing to buy modern LHDs. The LHDs are already larger than any World War II aircraft carriers, and larger than any foreign aircraft carriers. Even if this expensive idea for larger ships is adopted, it will be ten years before the first appears in the Fleet, and 35 years before the last "undersized" LHD retires, along with the last V-22s.

The Navy MH-60S is superior

Recently, Congress began asking about alternatives to the V-22. The marine corps dodged this issue, then offered the European EH-101 as a possibility, knowing that Congress would never support the purchase of a foreign aircraft. The Corps ignored the new Sikorsky S-92 helicopter, which has been sold to Ireland and Communist China. It claimed it would take years to develop a "navalized" version of the Army Blackhawk, ignoring the Navy HH-60H Seahawk, which has been in service for years, and an advanced version, the MH-60S Knighthawk, which just entered Navy service. The Knighthawk can carry a crew of four and 13 passengers or 10,000lbs of cargo, which is twice the payload of the older CH-60A "Blackhawk in service with the U.S. Army.

The marine corps can simply sign a production contract to join in the Navy buy for Knighthawks in FY2003. Navy H-60 spare parts and training programs have been functioning for years, and the Corps already operates eight VH-60s as part of the Presidential helicopter squadron. If the marine corps joined the Army, Navy, and Air Force by adopting the Sikorsky H-60 series for basic transport, all services would save money and improve interoperability. This year, the Navy bought 17 MH-60S for $17 million each, they would cost even less if purchased at a higher rate with a joint marine corps buy. The MH-60S can carry almost as much as the MV-22, at one-sixth the price. The Navy is impressed with the MH-60S and will use them to replace their CH-46D helicopters, rather than buying 48 HV-22s.

Adopting the H-60 design would allow the marine corps to add a new capability by modifying some MH-60S as EH-60E electronic warfare or MH-60Q Medi-vac helicopters, using components already in service with the Army. The Corps can also buy some MH-60Ks (right), which have larger fuel tanks and refueling probes which allow it to fly much farther than the MV-22. Another advantage is that the MH-60S is equipped to carry 16 Hellfire anti-tank missiles. This would quadruple the airborne anti-tank firepower of the marine corps. For example, MEU composite squadrons which the Corps maintains forward-deployed include four Cobra attack helicopters which could be supported by twelve MH-60S carrying Hellfires and machine guns.

23 posted on 05/16/2003 2:26:46 PM PDT by Light Speed
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To: Light Speed


For Colonel Dunn, USAF. He is telling it like it is. I NEVER understood why the V-22 was so damned critical to future Marine operations.

27 posted on 05/16/2003 3:01:22 PM PDT by Paul Ross (From the State Looking Forward to Global Warming! Let's Drown France!)
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To: Light Speed
Colonel Dunn is full of fecal matter.
31 posted on 05/16/2003 6:26:04 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: Light Speed
While doing some background on the Blackhawk/Seahawk from Rotor & Wing, this info from 2002 on procurement rates surfaced which I thought was interesting:

UH-60 Black Hawk : FY02 Budget Appropriation: $404.8 million

No military aircraft enjoys as much widespread support in Congress as the UH-60 Black Hawk. As aviation analyst Richard Aboulafia of the Teal Group in Fairfax, Virginia, observes, "It is a product of what now seems like the era of unlimited new programs, and is the last system of its kind that the services will get for a long time. If DoD doesn’t request any, Congress adds some. If DoD requests some, Congress adds more." [ Does this sound like sour-grapes or what??! Teal Group must have some vested interest...]

This year, for instance, the House of Representatives gave the Army an additional $131 million for eight more Black Hawks, thus giving the service a robust procurement of 20 UH-60s in all.

This amounts to a significant down payment on the Army’s outstanding requirement for 240 Black Hawks. Most of these helicopters are needed by the Reserves and National Guard, which are receiving the eight additional UH-60s appropriated by Congress.

The Guard also is receiving 120 cascaded Black Hawks from the active-duty Army. These aircraft were promised by Gen. Eric Shinseki, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, at the annual meeting of the National Guard Association of the United States (NGAUS) in Atlantic City, New Jersey, in September 2000. However, budgetary shortfalls and logistical difficulties forced the Army to postpone this long-awaited transfer of aviation assets until 2002.

Significantly, the transfer involves brand-new production aircraft, as well as used helicopters. The Army currently is procuring L-model Black Hawks, which were first manufactured in 1989. The UH-60L has increased lift capability and reduced O&S costs, but uses 1980s technology and still has an analog navigation system.

The Army plans to refurbish 193 Black Hawks as UH-60As. This refurbishment will yield no modernization improvements; however, it will keep the oldest UH-60As flyable until these aircraft can be upgraded to M-model Black Hawks sometime during the next 15 years. The average UH-60A is 18 years old.

Again, the problem is money. The A-model refurbishment is viewed as a necessary interim measure, a cost-effective way to maintain the fleet when funding is scarce. Indeed, Black Hawk modernization really lies in the UH-60M, which will give the aircraft new digital interoperability, long-range precision navigation, and 2,000 pounds more lift than the A-model Black Hawk. The UH-60M also will be able to lift 700 pounds more than the UH-60L.

The Army already has begun work on its UH-60M modernization, having signed a $219.7 million research development, test and evaluation (RDT&E) contract with Sikorsky last May. The service intends to procure 1,217 UH-60Ms over the next 25 years, starting with 10 low rate initial production (LRIP) helicopters in 2004.

Sikorsky began work on the M-model Black Hawk in November, with the induction of two -60As and one -60L. The Army will upgrade A- and L-model Black Hawks into -60Ms before shifting exclusively to M-model production in 2007.

41 posted on 05/18/2003 5:03:54 PM PDT by Paul Ross (From the State Looking Forward to Global Warming! Let's Drown France!)
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